So what is the prevailing theory on the Bud Crowntainer, anyway?

1. Is there evidence to suggest that this was test marketed?

Thought I'd heard once (rumor) that some of these were found in a wall in some building or house in MO.

2. Would AB have requested the test can from the can company and then received it, thought about and decided 'no', or would the can company have created it on their own initiative and then sent it to the brewery only to have AB decide 'no'?

I would think they would have first neeeded permission from AB, but just guessing.

3. Why would AB request the can and then decide 'no' if they never test marketed it? How did they know it was a no-go before test marketing it?

cg

My theory is that the can company was trying to move "out West" with their product and did a major promotion in St. Louis to get the 3 big St. Louis Breweries; Anheuser-Busch, Falstaff and Griesedieck Bros. to use their product. Apparently there was only one sale: Griesedieck Bros. Now you have a couple of very rare and more than likely unique cans in the A-B & the Falstaff Crowntainer cans.

Just my 2-cents.

Good theory. I would bet though that the Falstaff [if offered] wouldn't bring half of what the Bud is gonna fetch. Simply because it's a Bud not a shot at Falstaff or the fans of that brewery.

What would be the list of known "one-of-a-kind" Crowntainers? PLEASE DO NOT include paper labels, Withdrawn Free or alcohol statement variations. I'm interested in just the label. To get the list started:

1. Budweiser
2. Falstaff
3. Schlitz Vitamin D
4. Trent Cream Ale

Here are two that spring to mind
1. Ortliebs Ale
2. Sunshine Beer [not Extra Lyte Beer]

Any bock Crowntainers one of a knid?

I'd be surprised if they only made one test can unless it is hand-painted (which is quite possible). If you have something set up to do it automatically, why not run a few cans instead of just one? Also, I imagine there are lots of test sheets made that were probably thrown out when the brewery said "no", but with the crowntainer you actually have to make a can, not just a sheet. Once you've made the can, it justs seems more natural to keep it as a souvenir.

Who's this mysterious "Eric" with no email?

In a previous post it said that the can was "liberated" from the brewery , if so , its stolen property. Maybe AB is waiting for the auction to end to move in???

Yeah, that sure is odd. It is pictured in the Beer Cans of AB in the late 70's. Un less the president of AB gave it to the retiring employee for his collection, I don't know how else it would have been "liberated" other than stolen. I would think the AB would want to have a museum room set aside in the St. Louis brewery with on grade examples of all the cans from the 30's - 60's they had produced.

Maybe one of our more internet savvy members could pose a question to the seller with a link to the RB page in the body of the question for some killer free advertising??

A-B actually had this can on display with their other cans up unitl the previous owner asked for it back. He had loaned it to them for many years to display. They must have considered it his property to give it back. He has a good relationship with the curator at the archives and has even loaned them his personal "oldest budweiser litho" known. It has a crazy split label, maybe I can get a pic of it.

That's good info to know! The AB people are not as hardline as most would have thought. Who knows, back in the 40's, it was just a current beer can and people would have thought little of it.


An example would be like the tall "flip top" aluminum cans with the plastic flip cap. There were a bunch of test examples made of different brands, but I doubt many of the breweries cared to keep an example. I think Leon and some other people have one or two of these. Anyway, if those types of cans were to become the norm 50 years from now, it would be difficult to know the true story behind where these original flip top prototypes came from.

Wasn't there a time shortly after the war when regular flats and cones were not being produced due to a tinplate shortage or something? I believe crowntainers were produced after the war prior to full-scale resumption of flats and cones. Maybe this opened a potential sales opportunity to Crown because big brewers like Falstaff and AB were not able to can as many units as they would have liked. Either the brewers inquired or Crown made a sales pitch. The brewers either declined or regular can production resumed, negating the need. Just a theory.

For those of you not following the auction, Kent is posting (what appears to be) *ALL* the questions he's getting on the can. Very entertaining read. It rivals this forum for speculation, creativity, and volume!

Rand

The Duquesne Crowntainer is thought to be unique, as was the Gretz Ale until a second example showed up on ebay a year or so ago and sold at about $7300. I've also had several collectors tell me the Michel Bock was unique, but I've seen two of them in collections. I was not aware of the Sunshine mentioned above.

There are only theories, no facts, about whether the Bud can was ever filled. The thing about these "thought to be unique" Crowntainers is that any of them could have been introduced shortly before can production was curtailed for the war, possibly resulting in a only a very small number actually being produced.

Marc

Oops, I forgot to mention the copper Boston Light Ale as a possibly unique Crowntainer.

Marc

If crowntainers were introduced after the war (not sure?) then why does the seller state that this is most likely from 1938? What evidence is there to support that? Were crowntainers made prior to the war? I don't know, just asking.

cg

So why does this Bud can, which may very well just be a prototype and never filled, get so much attention and value while so many other unique cans are nice little $10k cans?

Nostalgia?

Maybe it's the same dynamic as Coca-Cola bottles? Almost all Coke bottles are common or, even if not common, not outrageously expensive. However, find one which is extremely early and possibly one of a kind and it'll beat (by a lot) other brand name cola bottles which are equally rare, far more obscure and just about as old.

Budweiser is the biggest selling beer in the country and has been for a long time. There are certainly paradoxical elements at play, as well as intangibles.
Since Budweiser has been embedded in most of the country's psyche for decade after decade, it may have a broader appeal than an equally rare crown from a small town. The broader the appeal, the higher the desire and hence value? Just a guess.

Marc
Dont forget the Piel's that came up a while ago.

CG: The Bud is pre-war because it has the "Pat. Pend" in the box on the side of the can. For example, Altes' first crowntainer was 1941 (yellow oval) with many variations of the silver and green one that followed after the war (all have the patent numbers in the box on the side). I'm not sure how he figured out the 1938 date on the Bud.

Thanks, Chris

Were crowntainers in use much prior to the war? Are there a lot of pre-war crowntainers?

cg

Yes, there's lots of pre-war Crowntainers. Weidemann, Brucks, Wacker, Eblings, Boston, Fitzgeralds.....a whole lot of them...

I got some Info on the First Crowntainer. This should really **** my Stalker off. Amos Calleson & Edgar Calleson of Merrick, Long Island, New York (County of Nassau) Applied for a Design # with the Patent Office on June 23, 1937. Application was approved April 19, 1938. Another Patent # 2,384,810 aproved in early 1945. Dont have the exact date handy but do not think the first Crowntainer was marketed to the public until late 1939. Maybe my Stalker can provide better info? LEON.

George, Let me know if that helps? LEON.

The CCS website states that the Crowntainer was introduced as a quart beer can in 1937.

Dr. - I didn't forget the Piel's, I intentionally omitted it as one that obviously was not a production can. I did acknowledge it in one of the other threads on this topic.

Marc

Marc, Maybe they mean Those Spun Aluminum looking Quart Pabst Bottles Dan Baker had pictured on here before? Just speculation, I really dont know? Never seen a Quart Crowntainer. LEON.

Here is a pic of the crowntainer being held by Jim Reicmuth who helped originally sell it for his neighbor. This was taken the day it was sold to the current owner.

Here is a picture of the strange Pabst crowntainer Loen was speaking of, I believe this can is unique. It is dated 1935?



Dan B

Just from looking at that thing,I just get a bad aluminum taste in my mouth!!!!! I'd bet the beer tasted horrible from that ghastly thing!!! Wonder if thats why they never went with it?
JoeZ.

I know this has already been brought up, but clearly, the crowntainer is pictured in "The Beer Cans of Anheuser-Busch..An Illustrated History" and is described as a test can from 1945. What is the final word or concensus on the date of this can?

Cool can, Dan! I remember seeing that in the BCU. Always thought it was a strange looking one, but still cool.

cg

sorry for the small pic thought it was goingto be bigger.

Here is the e-mail I got from Jim who helped the former seller sell it.
Tim, I hope you and your family are doing well. Here are a few of the pictures you wanted. Harvey worked for AB for 36-40 years and owned the can for app. 30-35 years. Harvey and I sold the can to Tony Joynt on ( I believe ) Friday October 13th 2000 for $20,000 + Tony gave Harvey a Winchester Rifle with the Michelob Medallion in the stock for the 75th Ann. of Michelob. ( The gun I belive is valued at 500.00 - 1000.00). The day we sold the can Harvey took these pictures of me holding it in his backyard with my old house in the background. I could have bought this can for 1000.00. Anyway I wonder why Kent is selling it for him. I just saw the auction on e-bay and the reason I know that this is the can is because on the bottom you can tell where an old label gun sticker was taken off. The day we sold it we were sitting at the bar and I asked Tony to let me see the can again I had noticed the old label still stuck to the bottom" Harvey A. Johnson " That was still there from when the Brewery borrowed the can from Harvey for the AB Can Book. I have also met the man from the AD Agency who took the pictures of the can for AN. Busch. The Brewery bought the Old Conrad Bud Sign. I hope this helps. Are you going to Belleville ? Hope to see you. Keep in touch, Jim

Wow, that's awesome. Thanks for posting that Tim.

Dan, is that YOUR Pabst qt or do you just have a picture of it? That's one I'd like to do a "Close Up" on for sure. Does anybody know anything about it?

didnt some post a picture of a old ad on here once that showed a 32oz crowntainer. I remember the pabst but this was just like a crown but a big-un....maybe im dreaming but could swear i seen a pic of it.
mike

I've never seen a photo of a quart Crowntainer, but I do know a collector who spoke to the guy who ran the machine that made them. The process wan't robust enough for the larger Crowntainer; the machine broke and they scrapped the idea. Apparently Schmidt's was the only brand to use this container.

Does anybody know which can company made the half gallon (two quart?) Pabst can? Crown Can Co. (Beverage Container Division of Crown Cork and Seal)didn't exist until the second half of 1936.

Marc

mmm, cans....
Here's the Piel's, totally plain back is a bit of a downer.
And anybody ever see another of these Natty Premiums?
Remember, the 'common' one is white enamel cone and background and
this is dull gray. Unique? Haven't traveled much so I dunno.

Marc, During the War years Continental's research Department was working on a 2 quart/ half gallon can & also a gallon can. As far as I know none of these exist so some day these could pop up as prototype/test cans. The first American Gallons did not Materialize until around 1965. Menke, Nice cones. LEON.

Now you have me all confused Loen. Which size container did the have? You mentioned they were working on both the 2 quart and also the half gallon containers. Which one was it? Also you stated they were working on both prototype's and test cans. What exactly is the difference, I always thought they were the same but I no I have alot to learn. Thanks in advance for Clearing this Up? Daev

Joe Z. The can company would have coated the 1/2 Gallon Pabst "aluminum bottle" just the same as they would have the crowntainers or cones...with some sort of resin liner....so the beer would not come in contact with the metal.

Rustmonger, I sometimes like to use 2 different words that actually mean the same thing, Sorry, just a habit. LEON.

Rustmonger,

I wish that was my Pabst crowntainer. It belongs to a guy in Wisconsin, all I know is that the can actually was produced for a very short time(according to the owner) This can was given to him from someone at Pabst.

Dan B