I was laying awake last night wondering what all this war drum pounding meant on the Korean Pennsula and I was impressed to read revelation 6 about the Sixth Seal Judgment!!!
We can see from the Sixth Trumpet Judgment and the Sixth Vial Judgment that there is a similar region involved with these two wars!!!
They both involvethe Kings of the East!!!! These are the nations to the far east of Israel which would include China and India and North Korea and Japan and the nations of Indonesia!!!
Could it be that the Sixth Seal is also assosciated with this same region!!!
This Sixth seal describes a nuclear explosion somewhere on the earth at the time of a Full Moon!!!
The Moon in thr Revised Standard Verion of the bible text has the moon turning blood red when it is at the full phase!!!
Funny how those warning from North Korea are about to come into play when the South Korean government conducts those exercises this coming Monday or Tuesday!!
That will be at the exact time when this Full Moon lunar eclipse comes into play!!!
This is the rare lunar eclipse that has not taken place during the winter equanox since some five or so hundreds of years!
Some even think this will trigger a mega-quake that will be preceeded by cold fronts and global extremes as we have been seeing in the last few weeks!
Also the latest solar flares are getting to be very dramatic with a three prong eruption on the Sun which occurred the other week; which is still causing activity on that region of the solar surface!!
There is also a warning from the Nasa website of Solar storms coming to earth by this coming Monday and causing much havoc among the communications networks!!!
My TV last night was acting all pixelated at various times which I thought was strange!!!
But in reading about this Sixth seal in Revelation 6 we have a Mega-earthquake occurring in some region of the earth(From a detonated Nuclear Bomb dropped on North Korea?) with the Sun darkening and the FULL MOON turning into the color of blood!
This next Lunar eclipse is definitely a blood red moon phenomena and we here in the United States will see it from our very houses!!
Also this Total Lunar Eclipse will occur in the heavens above the sword of the Orion Shepherd or hunter!!!
It also sybolizes war taking place with his foot very well placed on the head of the Hydra star group which is the Devil and his armies!!!!
The whole theme of Psalm 110 for the year of 2010 is the Lord raising his septer or sword over Zion and slaying many heads in the nations of His enemies!!!
Will we begin to see another world war start just before the rapture!!! This could be the war leading up to the final signing of the Peace Treaty in April of 2011 at the Passover Feast!!!
The Lord could take us out just before the bombs start dropping all around the world like stars falling from the heavens--as is described in Revelation 6 with the Sixth seal!!!
My first prophecy ever came when I was about twenty years old in a small spirit-filled chapel church with other young people hungry for God!!
I had given a prophecy in the church that said something like we would not be around when the bombs started dropping!!!!
I wish I could have remembered the prophecy but I was fearful of giving it at the time and was not use to God using my mouth to speak His word to the church; so I froze up and my mind went blank as I was giving the prophecy!!
People in the church told me afterward what I said! Even though I was not unconscious at the time and was aware of what I was saying; because of the fear I had a hard time remembering the words I spoke!!
The Lord did not force me to speak the prophecy it was more like an urge to say these words but still having controll on my spirit!!
The bible says in I Corinthians that the sirit of prophecy is subject to the spirit of the prophet(or the one who is using the gift of prophecy to edify the church)!
Will we see war in the coming few days??? I have a feeling that this could be the beginning of a limited global war!!!
Is the Sixth Seal about to be broken? I don't know!! Many of us feel that the seven seals will not be broken until we get into heaven and are seated with Christ!
There are some who believe that the seal judgments have been loosed on the earth during all these centuries after the asention of the risen Lamb of God(thus the slain Lamb being seen in heaven receiving the seven sealed book); but these four horsement and the persecution judgments continue until the end of the age up until the sixth seal which will actually initiate the final seven year countdown!!!
The fact that the first five seals could have been released so far does not change the events in Revelation as to when we appear in heaven; but it is possible that the church could very well be the multitude in heaven who escape tribulation and appear before the throne in washed robes(not from robes bloodied from being marytred; but from struggling in the flesh with the trials and tribulations on earth)!
We may just go to heave right before the trumpet judgments get released on the earth!!! After all the 144,000 in Revelation will have just been sealed after our departure in the following verses!!!
Just don't let the timing of these seal judgments throw you off!!! There really isn't any scripture that says the church has to be in heaven at the time the first five seals are released!!!
But if we are indeed the great multitude in Revelation 7 then it makes since that we would be coming out from the near start of the tribulation period just before the sealing of the 144,000 jewish believers who will witness during the first half of this tribulation!!!
Remember also that John did not know what the Great Tribulation was like we do; so any great tribulation is considered dramatic to his perspective!!!
The early church was going through great tribulation or trial and I am sure many of you can attest that today we are in the midst of great trial and tribulation!!!
Like I say, I am not sure when the seals will be broken but I am open for change as to when they are open in heaven and if we will appear in heaven before the start of their unsealing!!!!
To me it doesn't matter!!! The scene in heaven is favorable for both viewpoints!!!
What if the first five seals have already been broken down through the centuries that just means we are more closer to the Trumpet Judgments which actually open the last seven years of the tribulation period!!
And if we are the great multitude about to appear in heaven before the 144,000 are sealed and just before the trumpet judgments are unleased then we win big in this situation!!!
We are in a win-win situation no matter how you look at it!!!
I know we all look at Revelation 4 and see John taken up to heaven before the seals are unsealed; but remember that was only John and it was His experience not the Whole church!!!
We are still going up before the tribulation starts it is just a matter as to what part of the Revelation text best describes our representative body of believers!!!!
That's it for now!!! Lets watch and pray in the coming days because we are really getting close to something big now!!!!
In my point of view, there are no differences, when the nukes coming, either Yahshua comes at that day or not, either way we will be with Him.
In just a very quick moment, people will be evaporated by nukes literally.
The important thing, when that started to happen, have you already received Yahshua, your passport to Heaven?
Anyhow, we are all all soon be with Yahshua Our Beloved One forever only by His grace and mercy ...
I might not be able to see the eclipse :( its forcasted to be cloudy all week here. But I can tell you that something is deffiently diffrent about this eclipse. just look at the date.. 12/21/2010.. There we have 12/12/12 if you look at it closely. And its at around the same time South Korea will do live fire drills from the island... wich have been postponed because of weather. I would not be surprised if a Great quake happens in the united states on that day eaither... The eclipse will be seen all through the unied states in full the morning of the 21st.. 2AM central time. And with this eclipse being a very rare one on winter solstice in like 400 years.. yeah.. Its big.
Yes, I see the eclipse and the blood moon as a huge sign also. A blood moon is always a bad omen to Israel.
Lisa I am still not sure about this seal thingy ceremony!!!
I know the wrath judgments are not until the Trumpet Judgments and the Vial Plagues take place!!!
The Church is not necessarily gone in Revelation 4!!! I know the two chapters of Revelation 2 and 3 give us the full history of the church age; but when we come to the chapters of Revelation 4 and 5 this is the Judgment seat in heaven where John was taken to!!
I think the preparations for this judgment seat have been going on for some centuries now!!!
Remember time in heaven is not the same as time on the earth!!!
If we are taken to heaven in the next few days we could be back again at the time that the seven seals are just being released; even if when we were on the earth they had already been up to the fifth seal and the sixth was ready to break!!!
It is all about the time space continuum!! I guess the Back to the future movies have had an impact on me--Hee! Hee!!
You see if we are raptured tomorrow we could appear in heaven at the time when John went through his doorway in heaven or the wormhole of time and space!!!
Then we would be able to experience all these centuries all over again from a heavenly perspective!!
There is no time in heaven!!! We will see the past and present and future at the same time as if there is no difference at the point we were raptured to the point where John was taken up in Heaven!!!!
Both periods in history will be simultanious!!!
Remember when Doc Brown sent Enstein his dog into the future by one minute!!! When the dog reentered time it was the same minute he left; but for Doc Brown and Marty who were subject to space and time it was a minute later!!!1
Lisa never did I ever think that I would be using a comedy si-fi movie to explain a theory about heaven!!! Hee! Hee!!
I'm just not sure Lisa where this seal judgment placement all fits in with the layout of the book of Revelation!!!
I just wish the Lord would have made it less uncomplicated when this vision was given to John!!
Maybe it is not complicated at all!!! Maybe we have to put ourselves in John's shoes and when he went to heaven we have to view the things from up there instead of down on the earth!!!
No matter what- we will see in the coming days what place these Kings of the East play in the end time events as we see them unfold before our very eyes!!!
Scott, I truly believe the church is gone because it isn't mentioned anymore after chapter 3. I think for the most part, the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.
Take a look at Revelation 19, how it mentions the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. That takes place just before we saddle up our horses and join the Lord for the Battle of Armaggedon!
See what I mean about the Book of Revelation being in chronological order?
Lisa we do agree that the book of Revelation is in chronological order!!!!
The only thing that works out for both our viewpoints is when!!!!
You say Yes and I say no!! You say stop and I say go!
You say Rev 3 and I say Rev 7!!! I don't know!!!!
You say goodbye church Rev. 3 and I say hello heaven Rev 7!!!
I'm just having fun with you Lisa!!!! Remember that Hello Goodbye Beatle song??!!! It was a goldie-oldie!
To me if we are gone after Revelation 3 or Revelation 7 it still puts us on the same timeline as going up before the tribulation period begins!!!
You see Lisa with my viewpoint of having the seal judgments already released up to the sixth seal we are still at the same point together!!!!
You have us in heaven before the seals are released!!!
But down on earth we are already at the point where they are fully released!!!!
But we both get raptured at the same time!!!!
Does that make sense??? You see we are still in heaven for the seals to be released from heavens viewpoint; but on earth we are at the point leading up to the last seal being released!!!
To me it doesn't matter!! We are both in agreement about being in heaven before the seals are released!!!
Did you hear that! we both are in heaven before the seals are released!!! Which means that the church is taken up after Revelation 3!!!!
What takes place on the earth below is another timeline!!!
Maybe I just better leave this time travel alone and stick to my timeline hunter hobby!!!! Hee! Hee!
Lisa I think it all depends on how we judge time in heaven!!!!
Remember the back to the future movie!!! Marty and Doc Brown were in the future at one time and at the same time they also were running around in the past after going through time in their time machine!!!
I guess our timelines are not the same maybe!! I am now confused with my own space time continum!!
I'm sorry Lisa if I confused you or anybody else with this explanation of time in heaven and time on the earth being different depending where your location is positioned at!!!!
I guess those seven seals really do not make sense to me when trying to piece together the book of revelation!!!
Lisa I am trying to figure where the last seal is opened and when I do it leads me to some other dead end!!!!
I guess I am trying to make the seals fit in where I think would be to my own liking!!!
That's why I may leave all this research to someone else to do!!! I am getting tired of trying to fit these pieces together!!!
Maybe I can join the foreign leagion and rescue lost camels who are trapped out in the dessert without a GPS compass!!!
I'm sorry Lisa if I tried to open up a discussion that has no exit!!!! I'm good at having no safety net!!!
Lisa if the seals are still pending then they are still future!!! I really think there is a possibility that the seals and the trumpet judgment could run together during the first half of the tribulation period; since that in Revelation 10 this unsealed book
is now open at the point where the sounding of the seventh trumpet angel is about to take place!!
This means that up until the middle of the tribulation period the seven seals could be executed with the sealed book finally opening at the time of Revelation 10 when it says the seventh trumpet judgment angel is about to sound!!!
Remember this is after the two witnesses are killed at the end of the sixth trumpet judgment in Revelation 11!!!!
Lisa I think my head is spinning now!!!
We are really getting close to something big happening soon!! Either a major war or giant mega-quake!!!
I had a dream a few nights ago about a nuclear explosion and I think it was in this area of the Korean Penensula!! But you know with our dreams- that most don't pan out!!!
Lisa you are sooo right!!! Everytime I try to kick that seal judgment dead horse it gets me know where!!
All I know is that we are near the rapture and to a global war which might trigger the seven year tribulation!!!
Lisa I know about TN Doves vision but I did not know that he was ten years old when he was told that the Lord would return in 2010!!!
Lisa did you know about the Walmart angel visitation some 4 years ago or in 2006!!! The girl in that store saw a child that told her four times that it would be her last christmas on earth!!
Each statement might have been for each year since then!!!
This year 2010 would be it!! The Christmas in 2009 was the forth christmas! Meaning possibly that she would not be here to see the fifth christmas in 2010!!
Who knows if there are other prophecies and visions that are still unfulfilled for this year being the rapture year!!!
Times running out for the door of grace and for our time of occupying!!!
Lisa have a blessed and peaceful rest in the Lord for now and forever; while I am going home to my smoked turkey legs and dressing!!!
Lisa I got two smoked legs yesterday for about 8 dollars and they are delicious!! One leg last two meals!!!!
They are fully cooked and just need warmed up!! Got them at grocery store!!
I'm off to see the GIZZARD the wonderful GIZZARD of Gobble!!! Hee! Hee!
Yes, Scott, I remember the Walmart girl very well. And there are so many dreams/visons/fleeces that people have shared which also point to 2010! I'm not going to give up on 2010 until the last gong chimes on the Grandfather's clock on January 1, 2011!!
Funny how those warning from North Korea are about to come into play when the South Korean government conducts those exercises this coming Monday or Tuesday!!
We shall see, very interesting, it is in the news alot this 12/19, especially with the UN Council 12/18 Mtg...Hmmm....
Another little interesting item......scroll down to the Dragon Storm on Saturn article on this page.....
[ http://www.spaceweather.com/ ]
I have been studying Revelation chronologically, but as a stand-alone time line. It looks different than when it is mixed with Daniel...
I believe that Scott has a very good explanation regarding Timelinein heaven and on earth.
To me, John was taken up maybe with us and viewed the timeline as according to the 1st century. It is like a Video Playback Vision on Earth.
Could John be taken to heaven and see himself sitting with the 24 Elders (Apostles and Saints)?
Could John already rise to heaven the day he died...so that dead shall rise first is still true?
Then we which are alive...shall be caught up to meet them (coming with Christ) in the air?
Remember that Lazarus was brought to some sort of heaven when he died?
Why must we use earthly timeline to equate Heavenly Chronology?
God, Angels & Satan could see everyone on earth at a same time in heaven. If you connect many cameras and monitor them, you can see everything at once. You can even playback videos to track records right?
Just given ourselves an open mind not to restrict/limit God's Word by our ways which are never as high as HIS way.
Mike you have given me something to chew on here!! Let me put my choppers in!!!
Mike I have heard that it might have been John the apostle who was talking to himself when the elder in Revelation 7 approached him and was asking him about this great multitude!!
As you know the 24 elders in heaven are made up of both the 12 disciples and the 12 leaders of the old testament tribes of Israel!!
Some think that these 24 elders are the church which I use to think but if John is talking to one of these elders it is difficult to think as them as representing a larger body of people!!
When John is refered to as the Elder of the church in his epistles it is possible that this is his name given from his role as elder from the Revelation vision earlier on the Island of Patmos!! Just a possible explanation for this title!!
Could John the apostle have run into himself in heaven with John the elder(one of the 24 elders)?!!! Makes back to the future movies seem all that more credible! Hee! Hee!!!
You maybe right, though it is hard to understand for me to talk to myself?
Something like we can copy & paste ourselves after our Resurrection? We can have multiples? Wow! Jesus pls come soon...I wanna be multi-purpose Lord!
Matthew 19:26 "...With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
I was listening to a Jewish speaker who made the statement that in Israel, the USA is considered EAST.(not west as viewed here)
I found it an interesting thing for him to say considering scriptures just like this talking about the East.
Tea Rose wouldn't that be weird if we turn out to be one of those Kings of the East!!!
I doubt so.
Israel is in the central middle-east region of the earth as what we know and I believe definitely God sees Israel's Jerusalem as the place where He arrives and Heaven's Gate open on top of Israel.
Jacob(Israel) saw angels coming up/down from Heaven's Gate above the Holy Land.
Furthermore Abraham looked North, South, East, West reference based on Israel right?
just pointing out 1 difference between 7seals and 7trumpets/7vials Judgements.
Openning of seals is not in sequence.
"...opened 1 of the seals..." Revelation 6:1
Blowing of trumpets and pouring of vials in sequence,
"The 1st Angel sounded..." Revelation 8:7
"And the 1st went, and poured out his vial..." Revelation 16:2
I am not sure either.
Maybe there was 1 row of seals and Christ did not open the 1st few seals and so John could not tell which one...he was probably looking from left to right or right to left....but Lamb chose 1 seal from in between or somewhere he did not understand.
So John could not tell if it is the 1st right?
This could be a possibility that God has sealed the prophecy till our generation.
Thanks for the photo. A picture explains a 1000 words.
I guess scripture need not say from left to right or it must be in sequential (does not mean chronological right?) order according to Bible.
Let's say there are many people in a street.
I called 1 of the boys at the age of 12.
then I called another boy at age 12...would this be the 2nd boy age 12?
Do I have to say that the boy's names must be according to alphabetical order?
SO is the opening of the seals.
If Jesus did not open from left to right or from right to left is it wrong?
Is there any verse from the Bible that mentioned the seals must be opened from left to right or otherwise?
Pls show me.
the story of the boy continues...(assuming I do not know their names yet...because I only asked for 12yr old boys)
I called for a 3rd 12yr old boy (who is Noah),
then a 4th boy age 12, (i don't know his name, )
then a 5th boy age 12, (" ")
then the 6th boy at age 12 (")
and the last boy at age 12. (")
If I ask for the names of the 7 boys...and anyone could have replied...can I say he is the 1st boy?
if he said he is Tom,
2nd boy said he is Andy,
3rd boy said he is Michael,
4th boy said he is John,
5th boy said he is Moses
6th boy said he is Noah,
7th boy said he is Caleb...
So can I say 1st boy Andy is the same as the 1st boy I called out of the street?
Can I say 2nd boy Michael is the 2nd boy from the street?
That is a possible reason the meaning of the seals are not necessarily tied to their number.
pls pardon me if you could not get what I mean...because my English is not good enough to put it in a simple way.
Hi, I read this and it reminded me of my daughter's wedding because her bouquet looked like Amy's picture only turned upright. The stems were wrapped around with ribbon and tied with what looked sort of like seals. (beautiful white calla lilies and white roses).
I would turn the sealed scroll upright. Why? Because that is how it would be held and unrolled to read it. Then the logical thing to do is break in a row. 1,2, 3, ...
take a look here and see how ribbons tie a bouquet. you have to break the ties before you can unwrap (open the bouquet)
Ha. Don't mess with wedding plans. Do things in an orderly way. Here is another look (not my daughter's)
I believe that the 7seals is not tied to the other.
Just like the 7candlesticks in the Lamp of God.
Could the Lamb open the middle seal 1st?
Then He started from left to right or R to L?
Isaiah:55:9: "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
We need to be extra careful not to equate God's Word to our understanding...even John dare not write it as the 1st seal, right?
Remember we should not add/delete anything to God's Word?
Even in Genesis Woman added her own perception to God's Word.
Genesis:3:3: "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."
but GOD's WORD is :-
Genesis:2:16,17: "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Since God did not say not to touch it...should we add our own understanding "we cannot touch it" to God's Word???
Very good info.
As regarding the book which John saw...he can "straight-away" counted 7 seals and he did not mentioned a scroll...so it may be another sealing method?
Revelation:5:1: "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
Did John mention that after a seal was opened, the Lamb started to read from there?
I was told in the chapter6 that the 4beasts said "come and see"...see a video?
Note: the 5th,6th,7th seals...no beast say "come and see"
so should we say all seals meant the same?
As regarding the Woman and the added Word...
I am not saying that Woman added Word to God, it is true that Adam could be possibly mis-informing the Woman not to touch.
So Satan knew that they are not sure of God's Word...so Satan won. Woman ate, gave to Man who loves her and ate too. And so sin came into the lovely world.
I am trying to open our minds to the fact that it is dangerous if anyone is not firm on God's Word.
I am just pointing out other possibilities of different ways God is trying to show His Word being fulfilled.
Since there is a difference in seal's openning order...it could be of different dimension.
Time is a factor for human...but not for God.
I am a Technical person maintaining recording systems.
I could playback videos from different timings and search different channels, different locations, and need not be chronological order.
So in heaven, Angels, 4beasts and John could be talking at once? programing or downloading simultaneously? I do not know.
Why 7 Angels blowing 7trumpets? Why not 1 Angel blow 7 times?
I believe the parallel of Joshua's 7 priests blowing 7trumpets.
Also Gideon's army blowing all trumpets at once.
So should we say that all MUST be sequential?
God is not a God of confusion, so he allows John to remember one at a time...to write down one at a time.
Mind you, there are 7 Thunders...not written yet.
pls download free document from my simple website:-
7seals7trumpets7vials all was freely given to me by God.
Matthew:10:8: "...freely ye have received, freely give."
The powers given when the first four seals are broken come out of Heaven, not the scroll. So, these seals can have action associated with them before the scroll is opened.
Below is first occurrence of the word seal:
1Ki 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth.
The words used for sealed and seal are closely related to haste, marriage and concealment.
The first occurrence of seal in the NT:
Joh 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
Here the word for seal is closely related to the concept of slaughter.
The fifth seal is a vision of slain saints near the altar.
The sixth seal describes events on Earth and is said to be the beginning of the wrath of God and the Lamb-Jesus. Also, the 144,000 are "sealed" and commissioned.
The seventh seal brings the action of angels and the trumpets.
To this point nothing has actually come out of the scroll. Soon the Lamb, with scroll in hand, as the little book, descends to Earth:
Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Rev 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Notice in Rev 10:1 the rainbow, God's covenant, upon the head of the Lamb, per the idea of the white horse of the first seal connected to the rainbow and the redemption of the Church.
The thunders are uttered and sealed in Rev10:4 and not written IN THIS BOOK of Revelation. While the scroll may be a bill of sale, bought on the cross, it is testified to by the contents of this book. It is, I believe, a record of events. The judgements don't come out of the scroll/book, they are justified by its testimony. Therefore, the scroll need not be opened for events to occur.
By His Grace
Yea the seal need not be opened for events to occur.
I need to correct that it should be "a book" not a scroll...not roll type.
The Only Instance where the word "scroll" was found in Revelation was in "Heaven departed as a scroll"
Revelation:6:14: "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
sorry if I called it a scroll in my earlier post comments.
In the concordance scroll and book are synonomous.
scroll is a book...book is not a scroll.
scroll has a shape of a roll...book need not be.
Can you say the Book must look like a scroll?
I am a man...man is not necessarily me right?
So woman is a human. Human is not equated just only woman right?
God is love. Love is not only God right?
Pls do not jump to conclusion...like Adam(woman) did when they received God's Command.
Floyd Jones used to teach it this way...
... that the seals were telescopic and would flash-back while moving left to right.
The whole bible is written this way. e.g.,the first sentence (seal) gives an overall outline of the story or paragraph. Then it flashes back to begin adding detail to the story at an earlier time.
(e.g."In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth [start outline] and the earth was without form and void and [flashback to add detail] darkness was on the face of the deep")
In much the same way the seals work to flashback to a current point in the story. Then continue up until the day of the Lord (then start over again).
You have to determine when it reaches the point of return. They are telescopic in that they are contained within each other as they progress along the time-line.
the idea here is that there is so much happening at the same time you must flash-back to add more detail.
make sense? typically God dictates the entire bible this way. There are exceptions though since some chapters are simply inset or parenthetical and do not follow the time-line necessarily.
Tommy, I suggest you to look at it from the other way back wards. You will see what I mean. (except for the vials Judgement)