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Jan 21, 2011 - 11:48PM

please don't say "duh"

I was reading another post "...and power was given unto him (the antiChrist) to continue forty and two months." (Revelation 13:5)"

If power was given him to continue, that means that the antiChrist is already in power, right? Not that he comes to power for 42 months, but that he continues in power. Sounds sort of like a reelection? Power was given to him to continue?
Other political figures or voters say ok you can continue or proceed?

blueteapot

Jan 22, 2011 - 12:03AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

huh...good question....this is what Strong's has to say on it, although I don't think it clears it up much:

The word translated "continue" in the KJV is:

"FAIR USE FOR EDUCATIONAL OR DISCUSSION PURPOSES"

Poieo
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4160
Original Word Word Origin
poievw apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Poieo 6:458,895
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
poy-eh'-o Verb

Definition
to make
with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
to be the authors of, the cause
to make ready, to prepare
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
to make a thing out of something
to (make i.e.) render one anything
to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
to (make i.e.) declare one anything
to put one forth, to lead him out
to make one do something
cause one to
to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
to do
to act rightly, do well
to carry out, to execute
to do a thing unto one
to do to one
with designation of time: to pass, spend
to celebrate, keep
to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
to perform: to a promise

King James Word Usage - Total: 579
do 357, make 113, bring forth 14, commit 9, cause 9, work 8, show 5, bear 4, keep 4, fulfil 3, deal 2, perform 2, not translated 3, miscellaneous 43, vr do 3

KJV Verse Count
Matthew 73
Mark 47
Luke 81
John 97
Acts 66
Romans 23
1 Corinthians 13
2 Corinthians 7
Galatians 6
Ephesians 10
Philippians 3
Colossians 3
1 Thessalonians 4
2 Thessalonians 1
1 Timothy 4
2 Timothy 1
Titus 1
Philemon 3
Hebrews 18
James 10
1 Peter 3
2 Peter 3
1 John 11
3 John 3
Jude 2
Revelation 26

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total 519

Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bibliography Information
Thayer and Smith. "Greek Lexicon entry for Poieo". "The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon". .

I sure can't see where they got "continue" from if those definitions are correct.

Website: www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/poieo.html

mike

Jan 22, 2011 - 5:50AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Dear Blueteapot...

I saw the meaning continue...see link in

http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/4160.htm

quoted from Strong's Exhaustive concordance
to make or do

Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct) -- abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue,...

There is this form of "continue" for the Greek word. "to make or do"

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

AmyVG

Jan 22, 2011 - 6:06AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Don't know if this will help:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev13.pdf

Website: www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/

mike

Jan 22, 2011 - 6:42AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

poiesai and poieo are 2 different Greek words being translated...perhaps there is really an extended meaning for a Greek word "poeisai" rather than just simply mean 'to do'...

Even same English words may mean different things...RIGHT?

Right could totally mean turning opposite of left...
Right is correct or not?
Am I right?

2 different meanings...unless I add something else like handed.

The question will be:- Am I right-handed?
Then there is only 1 meaning.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 7:46AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

thank you blueteapot ,Amy, Mike

now i'm wondering if this AC is all ready in power of one position or another, but will [expand, bear, shoot forth, make a turn to an expansiveness in power) which becomes the fullness of the antiChrist.
I've wondered why God doesn't just stop this person in his tracks, but perhaps the world has to really see how wrong AC is before the maximum number of people who can be saved for God's kingdom can be.
In a winepress, the grapes are squeezed. Out of the winepress of God's wrath, something will be produced.

Good morning

blueteapot

Jan 22, 2011 - 8:41AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Thanks, Mike and Amy for expanding on the Greek definitions. That helps clarify things.

You might be on to something there, Regina. Certainly the usual suspects one see on an AC short list are already in some position of power or authority....just not the kind of overwhelming authority we know the AC will end up having - for a short time, anyway.

As to the "why doesn't God stop him" line of thought - When I was young, I use to imagine a "what if someone could go back in time and prevent Hitler's rise by ending his life before he rose to power" scenerio [granted, it was a bit of a blood-thirsty idea].

I finally came to realize that even if someone had successfully stop the man named Hitler - Satan would simply have raised up another in his place - and that God allowed that horrific time for a purpose. Like you, I can only speculated on that purpose while trusting in His Divine Nature - Just, Loving, Long-Suffering. Your speculation is as good as any I've heard.

Website: www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/poieo.html

Lisaleenie

Jan 22, 2011 - 9:24AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

regina

I was reading another post "...and power was given unto him (the antiChrist) to continue forty and two months." (Revelation 13:5)"

Regina, I love this, because there has been some controversary of late as to whether the length of the tribulation is 7 years or 3 1/2 years. The simple word "continue" should clear that up!! You can't continue something that never started in the first place, right?

W&W

Jan 22, 2011 - 9:51AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

That's just what I was thinking, Lisaleenie. If he has already ruled for 3.5 years then he is given 3.5 more years to continue. It shows he has already established power before the great tribulation starts.
It could mean he's re-elected, but I think by the time the great trib. starts, he's already a dictator. The world will be in such chaos that I think elections would be out the window. But I've been wrong before.

BetterPart

Jan 22, 2011 - 9:59AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Regina, Lisaleenie,

But don't the scriptures also show in 2 Thess. 7-8 that the wicked one won't be revealed until the ONE who is holding him back steps out of the way. I think the rebellions and powers of the antichrist and hell are definitely at work now and will not only "continue" but will be racheted up to an entirely other level when this man of sin is actually revealed. In other words, we don't know who the antichrist is currently and won't know while we are still down here, but the source of his power is at work now.

BetterPart

Email: shelbyt777@yahoo. com

Donna

Jan 22, 2011 - 10:43AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

anyone hearing yet of a covenant the ac 'confirms' for 7 years as prophesied in Daniel 9:27

the ac will sit in the temple of God as told in 2 Thess. 2:4 .. where's the temple?

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 10:53AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Lisaleenie,

there has been some controversary of late as to whether the length of the tribulation is 7 years or 3 1/2 years. The simple word "continue" should clear that up!! You can't continue something that never started in the first place, right?

So the tribulation is 7 yrs on a continuum that becomes tbe worst midway; AC is revealed midway but was maybe already in an office

rather than coming out of the woodwork. He/she is known and will be either an excellent power grabber or will be widely accepted.

Ladies, remember labor? In the beginning you think, oh this isn't so rough. Around 6-8 cm you think that baby better come, Lord deliver me

Perhaps at that point, the most people will be calling on the name of the Lord to deliver them and He will. The harvest of grapes from the winepress. The cup that comes from this period of wrath.

Calvin and other star people, is there a cup of stars in the sky that looks like it pours down and then dips up? Curiosity. God maybe pours out His cup of wrath, but then scoops up the harvest from that time...

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 10:56AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

your right Donna, as in correct

The temple will be rebuilt "even in periloous times".

Me speculating again, but maybe AC sits in another temple of God, one in Rome.

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 11:08AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

BetterPart

Regina, Lisaleenie,

But don't the scriptures also show in 2 Thess. 7-8 that the wicked one won't be revealed until the ONE who is holding him back steps out of the way. ... we don't know who the antichrist is currently and won't know while we are still down here, but the source of his power is at work now.

BetterPart

yes, the One holding back will be taken out of the way. So when the church is caught to heaven and the righteous dead raised, then all who are left on earth are ones who haven't known God.

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 11:45AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Hi Regina,

Sorry for the late response, but I had not looked at this thread until just now.

The Greek word ποιέω does not mean "to continue," as Blue Teapot has already shown by posting the Strong's definition.

In fact, the only way the word ποιέω can be construed to mean "to continue" is by the fact that the AC will be allowed to continue from the beginning of the 42 months to the end of the 42 months, but no longer than that.

The word ποιέω basically means "to do"...."to perform"...."to execute"....etc.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4160&t=KJV

So, as you can see, if the translators had substituted any of the above descriptions, it would have caused much confusion, since the scripture does not specifically say, in this particular verse, exactly what the AC is given authority "to do." Therefore, the implication is that he is only given the authority to do anything for this amount of time.

But to simply say, in the English, "he was given 42 months to do," without any further explanation as to what he is allowed to do, sounds a bit odd; at least in the English, anyway.

So, apparently that is why the KJV translators chose to phrase it as "to continue" even though that is not what this word literally means.

So, actually, the use of the word ποιέω provides even more evidence, that the AC arrives on the scene at the midpoint of one seven, and not before, because he is only given authority "to do" anything for 42 months.

Also, if you notice the word for word translation in the Hebrew, you will see that it indicates someone else coming to make desolate after the half of one seven.

See the interlinear translation here:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan9.pdf

9:27

and·he-has-mastery covenant to·the·many-ones seven one

and·half-of the·seven he-shall-cause-to-cease sacrifice

and·present-offering and·on wing-of abominations

one-making-desolate and·until

finish and·one-being-decided she-shall-be-poured-forth

one-being-desolate

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 11:48AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Regina,

You may also want to take a look at the video in this thread:

http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1055037&cmd=show

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 5:26PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

poiesai and poieo are 2 different Greek words being translated...perhaps there is really an extended meaning for a Greek word "poeisai" rather than just simply mean 'to do'...

Hi mike,

I just wanted to let you know that poiesai and poieo are not two different words, but rather a different conjugation of the same word.

See here for the different inflections:

http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/index.php?search=POIH%3DSAI

The word shown in the Strong's concordance is the root form.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=13&v=5&t=KJV#conc/5

But if you will click on where it says "tense" you will see that the form of ποιέω which is used in Revelation 13:5 is the aorist infinitive, which means it has no regard to past, present, or future, and is usually translated as "to whatever the verb may be."

So ποιῆσαι means "to do" whereas ποιέω means "do."

Hope this makes sense.

AmyVG

Jan 22, 2011 - 5:48PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

regina

your right Donna, as in correct

The temple will be rebuilt "even in periloous times".

Me speculating again, but maybe AC sits in another temple of God, one in Rome.

No, the Temple with be in Jerusalem:

Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Website: www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/

blueteapot

Jan 22, 2011 - 5:50PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

This has been a great conversation....I'm going to save it and study it later...when me and my headcold have...err...parted company and I can track better!

Website: www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/poieo.html

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 6:07PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Thank you watching and all for your comments.

Maybe looking for a peace agreement is only part of the picture.

Perhaps the covenant for 7 years might actually be for the temple to be built in exchange for land for the Palestinians. They would take rulership of Jerusalem as their capital.

Citing multifaith acceptance in the agreement, they might then confirm the Abrahamic covenant between the Jewish people and God begrudgingly to allow the temple, but not land rights. Thus not measuring outside the court because it is given to the gentiles as in Rev 11:1-2. Because it is written in the agreement, the Knesset is pressured to sign.

But the Palestinians and AC actually can't stand the situation, and midway the agreement gets broken, and the rest of Revelation plays out, and the holy city is trampled for 42 months, Rev 11:2.

See this picture below...saying yes you are free to worship but we also get what we want. Thus the temple gets built "even in perilous times" because those who hate Israel will continue to attack any border.
Midpoint then, the AC "to do" does quickly his evil work with the restrainer out of the way. The world and AC do not want Jesus to be the only way, the Son of the living God, come in the flesh, rejecting and casting down every false god.

AC and the world do not want the words of Jesus to be spoken “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John14:6

Jesus is our beloved shield rock, but to the AC and unbelieving world He is the rock of offense. Truly, all our works and selfrighteousness are like filthy rags compared to Jesus. Those people in the picture have achieved much, but are not on an equal basis with our Lord.

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 6:23PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Yes Amy, I agree about the temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem, but think also maybe the AC extends himself to the Pope's place as well, rejecting papal authority.

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 6:37PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Regina,

Did you happen to see the video in the following thread?

http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1055037&cmd=show

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 7:21PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Regina,

I was just looking over my previous post, and realized that I didn't explain that the following part of my post was regarding Daniel 9:24-27. I hope that didn't confuse you.

watching

Also, if you notice the word for word translation in the Hebrew, you will see that it indicates someone else coming to make desolate after the half of one seven.

See the interlinear translation here:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan9.pdf

The point I was trying to make is that based on the wording of the original Hebrew text, it appears that the "one making desolate" is someone other than the the "he" who confirms the covenant.

Based on the natural flow of the text and the context, it is obvious, at least to me, that the "he" in Daniel 9:27 is referring to the Messiah, and not the "one who makes desolate."

Here is the NASB version (which corresponds more closely with the original Hebrew than does the King James, in this case) of Daniel 9:24-27.

Daniel 9:24-27 (New American Standard Bible)

Seventy Weeks and the Messiah
24"Seventy (A)weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to (B)make atonement for iniquity, to bring in (C)everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

25"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a (D)decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until (E)Messiah the (F)Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be (G)cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will (H)destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a (I)flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

27"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of (J)abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a (K)complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

So as you can see, based on this translation, the one who comes to make desolate is someone other than the "he" who confirms the covenant.

Therefore, I, personally, am not looking for anyone to "confirm" a "seven year peace treaty" or any kind of "treaty" for that matter, based on my understanding of the scriptures.

In fact, even if someone were to make a seven year agreement with Israel and many (which has already been done, by the way, via the European Union ENP agreement, crafted by Javier Solana, which some believed to be the "covenant"), I still would not believe that person to necessarily be the AC, based on the signing of a treaty alone. Because I have not seen any valid reason, in all of my research, for believing that the "he" in Daniel 9:27 is referring to the anti-Christ.

regina

Jan 22, 2011 - 7:44PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

hi watching, ok, now I see the will come one....
Yes I saw the video. I had thought the covenant being made was a deceptive one for purposes of AC, but I can see how the verse could mean God the Father, or Christ the Son confirming the covenant of Abraham, making known that bond still is in place. Yet allowing mid week for Abomination of Desolation to happen so that all gets fulfilled.

watching

Jan 22, 2011 - 8:16PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Hi Regina,

I just want to clarify one more thing, I do not see any reason for the covenant to have to be confirmed again.

The Abrahamic covenant was already confirmed by Christ on the cross.

(See Hebrews 9 and 10 and Galations 3 among other scriptures.)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hebrews%209&version=KJV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+10&version=KJV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3&version=KJV

The one seven referred to in Daniel 9:27 is the seven in which the covenant was confirmed. The one that began after the 69th. The 69th week (7 + 62) being the week in which the Messiah came.

See Daniel 9:24-27 again:

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 12:51AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Pls study Luke4:17-21

Note that Christ Confirmed the week when He announced the Acceptable Year of the Lord (Luke4:19) but He did not read the 2nd half of Isaiah61:2 because He came to fulfil the Acceptable Year and NOT the 2nd HALF of the Prophecy "Day of Vengeance of our God"

Isaiah:61:2: "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God..."

Luke:4:19: "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke:4:20: "And he closed the book, ..."
Luke:4:21: "And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

I believe Christ will Confirm the Covenant again and the whole verse of Isaiah61:2 on Rapture Day.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 1:14AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

poiesai and poieo are 2 different Greek words being translated...perhaps there is really an extended meaning for a Greek word "poeisai" rather than just simply mean 'to do'...

Hi watching, I applogise for using the wrong term to say poiesai and poieo are 2 different Greek words.

Maybe even Greek manuscripts had used both "poiesai" and "poieo" for the same Revelation verse13:5 which are right in what they wrote.

What I am trying to say is that 2 different forms were used and there is always a REASON for their usage as they were written in manuscripts which could really lead to different translated meanings.

It is like 2 persons describing an event and they are not wrong when 1 of them understood the context as an extended form of doing...maybe even as "continue" and so he chose the Greek word "poiesai" to explain not just doing...

The other person may just use simple "poieo" to describe the verse13:5 and so was translated as "do".

We cannot question the KJV for their understanding as "continue" unless you are implying KJV is trying to cover-up the truth.
If so you are attacking on the translated word which is dangerous, right?

I have to say that KJV has been the most faithful in preserving God's Inspired Word since 1611AD (400yrs ago) and God has kept them ever since. Countless blood was shed for this written KJV which you are pointing out as wrong.

I am not going to mention other Versions which had eliminated the deity of Christ because I am not expert in other versions and my Pastor has been defending God's Word faithfully in True Life Bible-Presbyterian Church.

Maybe we have to study more indepth before concluding that "continue" is not correct.

Pls note that we are not discussing whether continue is Truth or Error
but what was best understood and hidden regarding Rapture Mystery and
therefore there is no point in saying that KJV is incorrect right?

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 6:41AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Hi mike,

mike

Note that Christ Confirmed the week when He announced the Acceptable Year of the Lord (Luke4:19) but He did not read the 2nd half of Isaiah61:2 because He came to fulfil the Acceptable Year and NOT the 2nd HALF of the Prophecy "Day of Vengeance of our God"

I really don't see how you're getting seven years from one year.

There are many who believe the acceptable year of the Lord was/will be a jubilee year.

In fact, from what I have read in the past, there seems to be evidence from the writings of Josephus that the year 27/28 a.d. was, in fact, a jubilee year.

The part of Isaiah 61 that has not been fulfilled, among other things, is "and the day of vengeance of our God."

Here is Isaiah 61 in it's entirety:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2061&version=KJV

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 7:05AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

It is like 2 persons describing an event and they are not wrong when 1 of them understood the context as an extended form of doing...maybe even as "continue" and so he chose the Greek word "poiesai" to explain not just doing...

The other person may just use simple "poieo" to describe the verse13:5 and so was translated as "do".

Mike, it's not a matter of the meaning of the word, but of the conjugation of the verb.

For example in the English the infinitive form of the word "sit" is "to sit."

The term "to sit" has no bearing in terms of past, present, or future, because it's an infinitive in the English.

Here is an example:

I like to sit.

You would not say, "I like sit." Would you?

It's the same thing with "poiesai" and "poieo."

mike

We cannot question the KJV for their understanding as "continue" unless you are implying KJV is trying to cover-up the truth.
If so you are attacking on the translated word which is dangerous, right?

I have to say that KJV has been the most faithful in preserving God's Inspired Word since 1611AD (400yrs ago) and God has kept them ever since. Countless blood was shed for this written KJV which you are pointing out as wrong.

[/i]

Mike, the King James Version actually happens to be one of my favorite versions.

However, that does not mean it is a perfect translation.

In fact, no translation is perfect because it is some times hard to express things perfectly from one language to another.

What I have already tried to explain is, that to say:

"and power was given unto him to do forty and two months"

would sound awkward in the English. It would also sound confusing, which is why I think the King James translators chose to use the term "continue" instead, meaning that power was given unto him to continue "to do" whatever from the beginning of the forty two months to the end of the forty to months.

But that is the allotted time that he is allowed "to do" or "to continue" but no longer than that.

Now do you understand what I'm trying to say?

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 7:43AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

Hi mike,

mike

I really don't see how you're getting seven years from one year.

Regarding Josephus' 27AD/28AD I believe it could be a sabbath year but it is not the year Jesus died.

Jesus was judged by Pilate in 43AD which is 781AUC the year Jesus crucified by Pilate. see below post.
http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1050208&cmd=show

Regarding Acceptable Year of the Lord...I believe it is indeed the year of Jubile.
Do you believe Jesus worked at least 3years after HE preached that?

There is 7year covenant for Acceptable Year which i replied Tommy's post quoted below:-

mike

Dear Tommy,

I would like to share Daniel's 3 layer shavua prophecy being fulfilled in below senarios:-

1ST LAYER:- 70weeks of years
= 62weeks + 1week + 7weeks
= 434years + 7years + 49 years
= 490years

Fulfillment of 62weeks = 434years…

From Cyrus Decree till Jesus preached Acceptable year of the Lord to Jews...
is 434years (62weeks of years)...
Pls note this period includes the 49years (7weeks of years) from the same decree of Cyrus till Artexerxes's decree to build the walls of Jerusalem within 52days. see Nehemiah 6:15.
Note 52days is the same period from Jesus' death (cut-off) 3rd day + 49days till Pentecost.

Fulfillment of 1 week = 7years…

Jesus preached the Acceptable year of the Lord to His people in Nazareth after His ministry in Syria (Luke 4:15-30) note that He mentioned 3 years 6 months in verse 25

in the midst of the week Jesus was crucified.
+3or4 years in Judah and then being cut-off in the midst of the week(7years)
note that in Luke13:1-9
He mentioned 3 years in verse7 and 1 year in verse 8

after possible few years…HolySpirit filled (Stephen) was rejected.
+4or3 years when Stephen(HolySpirit) was rejected and stoned to death.
see Acts Chapter 7:51-60 "Ye…always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did…And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit…and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge…"
Thus ended the week of 7years.

Fulfilling of the 7 weeks = 49years…

From the decree to build Jerusalem in 1967 till 2016 [or quarters in 1969 till 2018]
Israel miraculously won the war in 6Days and rested in the 7th Day.
It would be fulfilled that Israel will build the wall in 2016 or 2018.

2ND LAYER:- 70weeks of days
= 62weeks + 1week + 7weeks
= 434days + 7days + 49 days
= 490days

Fulfillment of 62weeks = 434days…

From the time Scribes and Pharisees which were of Jerusalem came to Jesus, possibly 40 days before the feeding of the 4000 which could be another passover, 1 year before His entry into Jerusalem in 10th of 1st month.
= 40days + 384days (1year with Adar2) + 10days (mth of Passover)

= 434 days
= 62weeks (days)

Fulfillment of 1 week = 7days…

Jesus entry into Jerusalem on 10th of 1st month

in the midst of the week Jesus was crucified on 13th night buried before 14th (Passover).
+ 3 days in Jerusalem
+ 1 day being crucified and buried on day4 (being cut-off in the midst of the week)
+ 3 days (3nights) before resurrection

= 7 days
= 1 week (days)

Fulfilling of the 7 weeks = 49days…

From the resurrection till pentecost = 7 weeks [Holy Spirit Baptism]

= 7 x 7 days
= 7weeks (days)

3RD LAYER:- 70 years of (weeks)
= 70 Pentecost (7 weeks per year)
= 70 years

Fulfilling of 62weeks = 62 years…

From the time Israel was born as a nation in 14 May 1948AD which is 6th Sivan till 2010AD
= 2010AD 6th Sivan - 1948 years 6th Sivan
= 62 years (365.2468 days per year)

Fulfilling of 1 week = 1 year…

Rapture by Jesus and Covenant of death within 2011AD?
= 1 year before Pentecost of 2011AD?

Fulfilling of the 7 weeks = 7 years…

From the rapture till 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ = 7years (shortened Tribulation period)
= 7 years (<360 per year?)

Just my guesses

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:03AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

Mike, the King James Version actually happens to be one of my favorite versions.

However, that does not mean it is a perfect translation.

In fact, no translation is perfect because it is some times hard to express things perfectly from one language to another.

What I have already tried to explain is, that to say:

"and power was given unto him to do forty and two months"

would sound awkward in the English. It would also sound confusing, which is why I think the King James translators chose to use the term "continue" instead, meaning that power was given unto him to continue "to do" whatever from the beginning of the forty two months to the end of the forty to months.

But that is the allotted time that he is allowed "to do" or "to continue" but no longer than that.

Now do you understand what I'm trying to say?

[/i]

I could not agree with you on no perfect translation of KJV.
God has purified HIS Word 7times and is PURE!
So I believe every word used in KJV is breathed by HolySpirit even in the translated text.

No point we dishonour God's translated WORD which had been preserved for 400years...old English still used by modern world.
KJV was translated with the most stringent 10factors by >10groups of Bible Scholars translated and choosing the best translation during the period printing was invented.
God has Authored this Pure Language for use by the whole world...that is why England became UK. Super British Empire!

Psalms:12:6: "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

Psalms:19:8: "The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes."

Psalms:119:140: "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it."

Proverbs:30:5: "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

The LORD Chose English as a PURE Language to turn the Israelites

Zephaniah:3:9: "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:12AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Hi mike,

mike

Regarding Josephus' 27AD/28AD I believe it could be a sabbath year but it is not the year Jesus died.

This would have been the year that Christ began his ministry, not the year He died.

mike

Jesus was judged by Pilate in 43AD which is 781AUC the year Jesus crucified by Pilate.

43 AD?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that date.

The decree that seems to best fit, based on my research is the Artaxerxes decree in Ezra 7, which would have been in 457 B.C.

Here is Ezra 7:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezra%207&version=KJV

-457 plus 483 years plus 1 because there is no year 0 equals 27 A.D.

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:15AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

The LORD Chose English as a PURE Language to turn the Israelites

Zephaniah:3:9: "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."

How do you know that language is English?

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:21AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Btw, here are some other translations of Revelation 13:5 that were done in the English language:

http://bible.cc/revelation/13-5.htm

I kind of like the way this version worded this particular verse:

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:23AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Old testament was translated from Hebrew Text and so we should look into Hebrew Text and not Greek text for the word "Continue" Right? pls check below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version

Regarding English as pure language...isn't English used during the printing process and had become the Number 1 language for use in God's Word?
God has honoured UK&USA...however most other English versions are being corrupted by satan in the 19th century

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:28AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

Old testament was translated from Hebrew Text and so we should look into Hebrew Text and not Greek text for the word "Continue" Right? pls check below:-

Revelation 13:5 is in the New Testament.

mike

Regarding English as pure language...isn't English used during the printing process and had become the Number 1 language for use in God's Word?
God has honoured UK&USA...however most other English versions are being corrupted by satan in the 19th century

The most popular language does not necessarily mean the most pure language.

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:45AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

Hi mike,

mike

Regarding Josephus' 27AD/28AD I believe it could be a sabbath year but it is not the year Jesus died.

This would have been the year that Christ began his ministry, not the year He died.

mike

Jesus was judged by Pilate in 43AD which is 781AUC the year Jesus crucified by Pilate.

43 AD?

Dear watching,

I have already replied in my earlier posts that Persian Empire is shorter than most historians believed.

http://www.simplesite.com/7churches/43730279

Only Bible could prove that Persian Empire is only about 400years before Christ was born.
From below is my compilation to the possible years with extremely good tolerances and there are 400 senarios which would not fit into a 6 days creation.
PersianEmpire was around 400BC and not to be used as reference because Bible years could be God's 360day calendar from day1 ever since creation...God 's clock is always synchronised and accurate. God allows human to have different calendars....to confuse the devil!
Even satan was waiting for 483years but did not know he was fulfilling prophecy when he crucified Christ earlier than expected.
God delayed the 7weeks till this end times.
The 1st 7weeks had started from Kingofkings Cyrus. Fulfilling the wall rebuilt prophecy.
Christ has yet to fulfil the 2nd part to reign as King of kings.

I tried to tally all Bible Prophecies senarios and found only two of the below
senarios are correct:-

a)start with Adam was born (After Creation)
= 1 AC
b)+ Abraham born (AfterCreation)AC1939 or 1949
= 1950 AC
c) +Isaac born +100yr +/-1
= 2050 AC
d) +Israel born +60yr +/-1
= 2110 AC
e)+ Jacob(Israel) sojourning at age 77yr+/-2 left Esau when Eber died (430yrs after Peleg born)
= 2187 AC
f1) +430yrs of Jacob sojourning (=30yrs when Joseph sold into Egypt + 400yrs ill treated in Egypt)
= 2617 AC
g) +480yrs till 1st temple built by King Solomon
= 3097 AC
h) +390yrs of Israel/Judah kingdom till exile
= 3487 AC
i) +70yr exile of Israel captivity in Babylon (exile ended when Cyrus decree to build Temple)
= 3557 AC
j) +434yrs+3.5yrs (62weeks+0.5week) till Christ death (7weeks in parallel fulfilled but not the actual since there would be a 3rd temple)
= 3994.5 AC

k1) +2000yrs(360day not 365.25day per year)
= 5994.5 AC
L1) + 7yr shortened tribulation(1week)
= 6001 AC

and more info in my website and free timeline document could be downloaded.

Persian Empire is indeed having 4kings with Greek generals confused with the names of Artaxerxes son of Darius and different generals name Artaxerxes as Arta, Xerxes, Darius and modern people placed them as different historical wars.

In actual fact there is just few wars with Artaxerxes and Darius was already dead.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 8:51AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

Old testament was translated from Hebrew Text and so we should look into Hebrew Text and not Greek text for the word "Continue" Right? pls check below:-

Revelation 13:5 is in the New Testament.

mike

The most popular language does not necessarily mean the most pure language.

Sorry Revelation is New testament...i thought it was Daniel's book.

Did John write Revelation in Hebrew since he is Hebrew?

I believe according to God KingJames English is pure and not just modern english which is being corrupted.

I love KingJamesEnglish.
Strange that I am a Chinese defending KingJamesEnglish.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:05AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

I have already replied in my earlier posts that Persian Empire is shorter than most historians believed.

Mike, I don't see what the length of the Persian Empire would have to do with the date of a decree and then adding 483 years to that.

As far as the 360 day year, I honestly do not believe that God would expect us to be able to calculate long term time frames such as 483 years, based on a 360 day year, it would just be too difficult.

In fact, it would be impossible with out some type of computer program, that most people do not have access to, and probably wouldn't know how to use it (if they are like me), even if they did have access to such a program. And they most definitely did not have computer programs to do those kinds of calculations back in Daniel's day.

So, I basically, believe in keeping it simple. I don't think God expects us to be geniuses in order to be able to understand His word.

And when a simple calculation, such as the one I showed you works, why look for another?

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:06AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him

Just saw your http://bible.cc/revelation/13-5.htm and cross reference verse Daniel 7:11 "Then I CONTINUED to watch..."

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

tommy

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:12AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

good one! yes, I agree, new thinking out-of-the-box revelation is refreshing

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:15AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

I have already replied in my earlier posts that Persian Empire is shorter than most historians believed.

It was written as 7weeks and 62weeks...why not 69weeks?
God divided His Prophecy 7weeks to allow different fulfillment and therefore conceal this secret till now.
after 62weeks which is 434yrs + 3.5years later was fulfilled to the dot.
Then 7weeks left to be fulfilled.
We should not add this 7weeks to make it 483years because God has allowed man to be confused with His 7weeks being fulfilled concurrently.

Artaxerxes was great grandson of Cyrus and 20th year of Artaxerxes as King of Kings was indeed the 49th year of Persian Empire.

Artaxerxes KingOfKings(Reigned 41years according to history record)
Artaxerxes was the KingOfKings who invaded Greece after Nehemiah died.
We should therefore add 21years for the date Persia lost to Alexandra the Great in 330BC.

So Persian Empire started at about
=330BC + 21years extra reign of Artaxerxes (after wall rebuilt in his 20th yr) + 49years
=400BC

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:21AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

Did John write Revelation in Hebrew since he is Hebrew?

From what I understand, they probably spoke Aramaic, but Greek was the most popular language, that most people knew, back in the time of the New Testament; just as English is the most popular language today.

mike

I love KingJamesEnglish.
Strange that I am a Chinese defending KingJamesEnglish.

I love the King James, myself, although it took some getting used to. But now I actually prefer it.

I don't know what the PURE language that Zephaniah is referring to is, but one of the most, let's say, elaborate languages, that I know is Greek. Of course, I only know two languages (one of them being Greek, because I happen to be Greek, although my English is much better than my Greek). But when it comes to precision, the Greek language surpasses the English language, by far (in many ways, but not always). In fact, I think that may be the reason why God chose to have the New Testament written in Greek. I would imagine the Hebrew language is very precise, as well. I don't know anything about Chinese, though.

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:23AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

Did John write Revelation in Hebrew since he is Hebrew?

mike

I love KingJamesEnglish.
Strange that I am a Chinese defending KingJamesEnglish.

WOW you are a Greek! We have lots to learn from you brother/sister!

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:27AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

We should not add this 7weeks to make it 483years because God has allowed man to be confused with His 7weeks being fulfilled concurrently.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

tommy

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:29AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Mike and Watching,

thank you for the excellent dialog! I wish I had seen this thread earlier... it rules!

My take on the crucifixion date: 28 AD

Mike, can't wait to see your time-line on your website.
Your explanation of the 3 layers was excellent!

wow, hope you are correct about the pure language, the King's English! lol

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:31AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

WOW you are a Greek! We have lots to learn from you brother/sister!

Hi mike,

Thanks for the compliment, but modern Greek is quite different from Koine Greek, and my Greek is not that great to begin with.

It does help me to get a better understanding of the text though.

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:43AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

tommy

wow, hope you are correct about the pure language, the King's English! lol

Great comment brother..."King's English"

Regarding the crucification...I believe Jesus died 40years old so Jesus is like Moses indeed.

http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1053558&cmd=show

http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1051124&cmd=show

Pls check my website and download the free documents.
I doubt the 4shared website would have virus.

It is midnight my time and so could not reply you soon...good night.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:45AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

watching

mike

We should not add this 7weeks to make it 483years because God has allowed man to be confused with His 7weeks being fulfilled concurrently.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Do you remember tower of babel? Why God created so many languages? to confound "confuse" foolish sinful man right?

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

watching

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:52AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Hi Mike,

The language was confounded, but not God's Word.

Genesis 11:9
Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

mike

Jan 23, 2011 - 6:31PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

God's Word is not confounded when used as 7weeks and 62weeks...man is confused not God.
God did not say 7weeks plus 62weeks right?
Man always take God's Word in man's logic.
If you check the Persian Empire you will know that Persian Empire could only be around 70years to fit into God's 6000yr(6DAY) plan...no other way else. You have to check my timeline to understand. pls.

I was given the timeline in 2008AD...then only found out that Christ crucified in 2010AD.

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

Donna

Jan 23, 2011 - 6:57PM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

Christ crucified in 2010AD.

huh

mike

Jan 24, 2011 - 7:03AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Donna

mike

Christ crucified in 2010AD.

huh

Sorry and thanks for pointing out, Donna,

I was in a rush for work that missed out "43AD" causing so much confusion.

My whole sentence should be this.

"I was given the timeline in 2008AD...then only found out in 2010AD that the year Christ was crucified was in 43AD."

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

tommy

Jan 24, 2011 - 7:11AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

"I was given the timeline in 2008AD...then only found out in 2010AD that the year Christ was crucified was in 43AD."

huh

I think not

mike

Jan 25, 2011 - 5:54AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

tommy

"I was given the timeline in 2008AD...then only found out in 2010AD that the year Christ was crucified was in 43AD."

huh

I think not

Tommy, Have you check or read the posts?

I was skeptical like you too...I saw Pilate's diaries in 2009AD and never thought of Jesus' death was key to unlocking the 2DAY (2000year) Hosea prophecy.

Hosea:6:2: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."

Have you studied Hosea's prophecy?
I have even applied 2003years to Hosea's prohecy.

I had thought that
2days=2000years
3rd day= (3rd year) He would raise us UP.

So added 2003years after 36AD(last known acceptable date of Christ's crucification based on "historical" data of Tiberius Caesar's reign and Pilate's rule as governor)to determine the Rapture period.

2003x360days would be 1974x365.25 GregorianYears+~90d days)

so I anticipated Rapture was 1974year + 36AD April
= 2010AD July or August latest Rapture.

I am sure ALL of RITA know that NO Rapture even after Sep 2010AD.

I could not believe in 27AD+ 2000GregorianYears because it would be 2027AD and I won't believe anyone would survive after 17 more years.

So I was angry with God and I accused God lying in His WORD because even 2003years after 36AD has passed.

It was so strange after my cry to Him that I was reminded of Pilate's diaries which indicated Christ's death...meaning there maybe real evidences in the Roman Year.

Pls check/see for yourselves unless you believe in 2000years after 27AD

http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1050208&cmd=show

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

Navion

Jan 25, 2011 - 8:05AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

mike

2003x360days would be 1974x365.25 GregorianYears+~90d days)

Why 360 ?

Email: texlittlefield@gmail.com

mike

Jan 25, 2011 - 8:44AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Navion

mike

2003x360days would be 1974x365.25 GregorianYears+~90d days)

Why 360 ?

360days since God created earth when earth spinned 360days for 360degrees around the sun.
evenings and mornings only confirms earth was perpendicular before the Noah's flood.
After flood...seasons of summer and winter...the tilted earth and so...365days around sun.

Do you think God changes His clock?
I believe God is the same forever!
Hebrew:13:8: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

Pls see my compilation in timeline in website...

http://www.4shared.com/document/YaeK5IKN/7th_day_Weekend_Rest_ManRules6.html

http://www.4shared.com/document/9oBLR0ee/Rapture_anytime_fr_dec_2010AD_.html

Email: mikettc2002@yahoo.com.sg

Website: www.simplesite.com/7churches

tommy

Jan 28, 2011 - 6:41AM

Re: please don't say "duh"

Timeline 2010 to 2019: Events on the Calendar That Could be Very Significant - Bill Koenig
January 26 to 29, 2011 (see page 95, by Kevin Drake and Phil Rogers)

Grand Finale and Beginning: Jubilee Begun on Nisan 1 (Feb. 5th to 6th by Jean Stepnoski)

Looking Forward to Adar 1, Day 1, Feb. 5th to 6th, Worldwide Conclusion, 2011

April 23rd, 2011 (eve of Firstfruits, begins 70th Week?)

(the final 3rd tier/layer) is still valid up until Pentecost 2011...

Time until Sunday, May 15, 2011, Creation calendar, Pentecost,
(70 days from Nisan 1, 6 March 7th)

Time until Sunday, June 12, 2011 calculated calendar, Pentecost,
(68 days from Nisan 1, April 5th)

May 16th, 2011 (2nd Passover)

June 12th, 2011 Pentecost (calculated not crescent) 3rd tier Jonah code expires?

http://antipas.net/heb_cal.htm
http://www.studiesintheword.org/original_calendar.htm#CHARTSCOMPARATIVE

(Jerusalem time), 7:36 PM molad time
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

"WebCam" ~ Jerusalem ....watches the sunrise/sunsets