I really believe we are close this time...but Im wondering once the antichrist confirms this covenant does the 7 year treaty coincide with the 7 year tribulation?Will we be raptured before this covenant.(im assuming)I really think the tribulation is going to start in 2014...So maybe that is when the covenant will start.I imagine that the treaty would go into effect on Jan 1,2014.What do you all think?

Hi RosesinSept - just in case you didn't watch Paul Begley on Jonothan's post: Does Obama Have Secret Plan For The Temple Mount? (Begley Video) - you ought to watch it - it ties in with what you are talking about here.

You know something I've struggled with in my head is that I didn't think the Israel/Palestine agreement was THE seven year covenant. I thought it would need to include most of the ME. But since the Arab nations have come out backing this agreement, as Paul brings out, (was that like a week or so ago?)that fits better for me in trying to put all this together.

He also brings out about the wars that have to take place before that covenant is signed. The way things are going - I think those wars could happen before the end of the year - but...I could be wrong

What do you all think about him (Begley) saying he doesn't think the AC has to be the one to confirm it?

I wondered about that too Goldenknight. I thought I must have misunderstood that from the beginning then, right after hearing that, I read an article saying it IS the AC???

I've always though that and have been seeing it from top prophecy teachers, so, I don't know. . .How else would those two sides agree to anything binding.

Yea - I'm gonna have to disagree with Paul on this one.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

rereading this for clarification, to me, it seems very clear that the one confirming the covenant is the AC. It doesn't make sense that a writer would switch person's in two sentences, both using he. I wonder where Paul gets that from?

I agree, the AC is the one who 'confirms' the covenant. I'm my mind I saw the scenario unfolding something like this... Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 takes place... out of the carnage following that, the 7 yr. peace treaty happens.

But.. I could also possibly see it kind of happening like this. Let's say that a 7 year agreement is reached, but very shortly thereafter Isaiah 17 occurs, right before the agreement can really be put into practice, or made official. Then after war happens, the AC comes on the scene to 'Confirm' that covenant/agreement.... My understanding that the word used for confirmed, means to 'make strong". In other words, the AC comes on the scene and says something like, "hey, don't shelve the 7 agreement yet. I will guarantee (in someway) to make sure that this agreement will stand for 7 yrs. Possibly adding in the carrot of compliance to Israel being able to build it's Temple?

Anyway, just some food for thought, because of the use of the meaning for the word "confirm", in the reading of Dan,9:27

It will be interesting to find out how it eventually pans out. Whether we see it from this side of Heaven, or from our Heavenly home.

I'm with ya Chris N. --- I just notice your name says Chirs

"he will confirm a covent WITH MANY." At this point, there are 57 Arab nations, one Israel, one Palestine, and one nosey America who would ALL be considered as "confirming" the covenant. For this to be an agreement with the many, the many must confirm it.

If we look to the other translation often used, "enforce" then this would imply that the AC would not necessarily HAVE to be one of the many confirming the agreement. In this case, he could step up at any moment and enforce it. For example, he could be a leader of a nation that did not participate in the confirming (like say Europe) or if one of the leaders confirming died, he could take their place and when there is a scuff among nations he could "enforce" the covenant by either limiting funding (hmmm....who would that sound like) or some other form of punishment (like no food rations, etc).

I'm curious as to the Hebrew word that was actually used.

Email: ryadon@ymail.com

Let me add this too. It's from the bottom of the link above, but wouldn't copy and paste.

So then it could mean "to strengthen"?

So then, we could have some type of agreement come through, in which the parties agree but still decide to throw a missile or two at each other for a while, and then someone (the AC) could come in the picture and be like "alright kids, knock it off or there are going to be some serious consequences," or he could be like "knock it off and I'll give you x, y, and a temple!" And then that would in essence be "confirming" a covenant of 7 years and not necessarily be taking part in it's formation?

And in that case, could the agreement be longer than 7 years, let's say they agree to 8 yrs, and then he steps in in the last 7 years?

Are these possible scenarios?

Email: ryadon@ymail.com

Yes, in my opinion those are possible scenarios. And I do think that the Temple will be the carrot of enticement for Israel.

Heh-heh, my brain is faster than my typing fingers. Thanks for the head's up.

I think all of your scenarios are possible, but due to the specific language of Daniel, I think it will be plain that the agreement is for 7 yrs.

It could be that Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 breaks out before the treaty is signed. Like right before... then after that's over, the AC comes on the scene to "make strong', strengthen, the 7 yr. deal. By the sounds of Isaiah 17, things happen very quickly, so not a protracted war, but more of an explosive skirmish, that shocks the world.

But really, I don't know how exactly it will play out. But it is fun to speculate and put forward scenarios.

Chris N.:
By the sounds of Isaiah 17, things happen very quickly, so not a protracted war, but more of an explosive skirmish, that shocks the world

Like...say...overnight...Damascus...ruinous heap...I could see this happening quickly

You're right - It IS fun to speculate. Especially when you see things that could line up QUICKLY!

Sparkles- the other Arab nations in agreement with this made it fit for me too.

Though the Lord still seems to have His restraining hand upon things, it also seems to be so very near, however the particulars play out. I also agree that when it starts, it will all fall into place rather quickly. I also agree 2014 will be the year of the start of tribulation. If we are not outta here by this years end, things will truly accelerate next year. The Lord is indeed still mysterious in His ways and times. It's exiting that we are this near to end of things, yet very sobering also. Though we can share, preach, teach and be instant in season and out of season, in the end, each much come to a knowledge of the Lord Jesus individually. We can't choose for anyone else, just ourselves. This is a personalized salvation plan that the Lord has engineered. We can love people to death, or bash them over the head with scriptures, we can approach them softly or be in their face, but the decision is still theirs alone. All the evangelism in the world can't save anyone!

Love & blessings...Tender Reed

Amen, TR, Amen. Sobering thoughts. Lot's of prayers going up for the unsaved, that the Lord will open many of their hearts and eyes. Amen!

I think by the time the AC confirms the treaty, he's already a prominent figure in the global stage. In the first seal, he's seen as conquering or rising to power.