Now that we are seeing the "New Norm" being accepted in the
Church & Globally, the Prophecy of Jesus of the Days of Noah & Lot
is now here full force.
Pray for those that are Lost..Jesus died for them too.

NBC NEWS:
Pope's remarks seen as good step toward inclusion:
By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

Pope Francis’ comments Monday about gays triggered welcome reactions -- though most observers said his remarks merely reflected a tone of openness that he has set for his papacy and not a change in policy.

“If a person is gay, and looks for the Lord and had goodwill, who am I to judge them?” the pontiff said at a news conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.

Pope: 'Who am I to judge' gay people?
Mary Ellen Lopata, who co-founded Fortunate Families, a networking ministry with Catholic parents of LGBT children, said it was a “refreshing statement after years of hearing less welcoming statements from church leadership” and called it a “good first step to understanding and love.”

I sense what he is saying is that we are all children of God and we need to treat each other that way regardless of our sexual orientation,” she said. “If that is indeed what he is saying, I think that is a good step forward for reconciling with gay and lesbian people around the world, and also their families.

"Much that’s been said in past years by church leaders has been very hurtful not only to gay and lesbian people but to their families as well.”

But Mark Dowd, a former Dominican friar in the U.K. who left the church partly because he fell in love with a former friar, doubted the comments represented a significant shift in the church, saying it made “a nice headline” and not much else.

“On a scale of zero to 10 about where we need to be, that’s moving from about zero to three as opposed to nine or ten,” said Dowd, a freelance broadcaster specializing in religion.

While on a plane from Brazil to Rome, Pope Francis told journalists that gay people should not be marginalized, saying, "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?"

The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.

The pontiff’s remarks made for “good common ground,” said Marianne Duddy-Burke, executive director of Dignity USA, a group of LGBT Catholics.
“If someone loves the Lord and has goodwill -- the reality of that describes an awful lot of LGBT people,” she said. “There are a lot of LGBT people of faith who are working very hard to hold onto their faith and I think it would be important for us to bring our stories to the pope and other church leaders to move this conversation forward.”

A key step would be bridging the gap between some church leaders who engage in anti-gay rhetoric and their parishioners, many whom support LGBT rights, Duddy-Burke said. Fifty-four percent of Catholics support same-sex marriage, according to a Pew Forum poll released earlier this year.

“If Francis can be an instrument in healing that divide, we would certainly welcome that and are happy to partner with him,” she said, while noting that only time would tell what impact his remarks would have on daily life.

“How many times in recent months have we seen bishops indicate a willingness to look at the question of civil unions or some sort of legal recognition of same-sex couples (but) only a day or two later they have been forced to retract their statements? Will that happen with the pope? I don’t know, but I would hope that certainly even a change of tone or an indication of openness to discussing these issues is helpful," Duddy-Burke said.

LGBT advocacy groups recalled the pope’s speaking out against same-sex marriage in Argentina – where he was an archbishop and cardinal -- as well as the right for gay couples to adopt.

“This pope had a much more difficult relationship with gay people and the work to end anti-gay discrimination when he was in Argentina but since assuming the papacy he seems to be opening his heart and moving in the right direction,” said Evan Wolfson, president of Freedom to Marry.

“Certainly to have this kind of statement coming from the pope should create much more political space for decision makers (rather) than the constant pressure to discriminate that we heard from prior popes.”
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/29/19755943-popes-remarks-seen-as-good-step-toward-inclusion

Fair Use For Discussion & Educational Purposes.

2 Peter 2:4-9
"4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment"

Well, I would agree that what the Bible condemns is the act of sexual immorality (including lusting after another in the heart). Simply experiencing temptation is not sinful in itself. If someone struggles with same-sex attraction and gives his heart to Christ, he in the same position as those who struggle with any other sin. Without Christ, no one will enter into eternal life.

One problem with labeling people who don't have a desire for the opposite sex as g*a*y is the assumption that if you are not having sexual relations then you are g*a*y by default. Some people are simply asexual.

Jesus acknowledged that some are born eunuchs:

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12

Those who love the Lord and overcome this temptation should not refer to themselves as g*a*y Christians, any more than it would make sense to call yourself a "Christian liar," or a "Christian thief." The label gives the impression that they are practicing those sins and are unrepentant.

I cannot relate to the temptations they must experience, just as I cannot fully understand the desire of alcoholics to drink. Every person has his own weaknesses to cope with. God is compassionate toward sinners, and we should be also. But we see Jesus telling sinners to go and sin no more, lest something worse happens to you (John 5:14). That is not permission to carry on in our sins.

Very well stated David. But we must also make people aware that homosexuality is and has been a stated tool firstly for culling the worlds population, and secondly a tool of satan to undermine God's authority. That said, indeed, sin is still sin, and certain sexual sins are more abhorrent in the eyes of Lord. This should not be minimized in any way. In the end, indeed, the Lord is judge. This aspect of God is also assailed when we humans decide to operate in our own authority, rather than God's! When will we ever learn? Spiritual idolatry is akin to physical adultery, in God's eyes. Whether it is our own bodies that we make an idol, or some other. Truth is, there is no scriptural fear/respect of God, or His laws. In the end, it is all rebellion. And when we rebel against God, we longer can benefit by His covering for our sins.

Love & blessings...Tender Reed

David R:

I've never heard it put that way, and your absolutely right. Once we are
in Christ we are completely washed by His Blood of ANY Sin.
There should be no label whatsoever, what I understand is that
this is a lifestyle that is very difficult to leave, but many
have done it and some still struggle with it, but Jesus helps
them through it, as He helps us with whatever sin is dominant
in our nature. Love your response.

Maybe the Pope has a very poor interpretation of Titus 1:8?


Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
(KJV)
Fair Use for Discussion & Educational Purposes.

Email: thessalonians6@bell.net

Here, here, David R. Very well stated!

it break my heart to see that as i just watched the tv news on ctvnews. it is really sad. it seems it is getting worse and worse in these days now.

as i know one of my friend used to be gay but not anymore, so now he is deaf pastor in Australia, how did he stopped doing gay, he read the tract, and that s how he saw that message through tract and decided to stop doing it and now he is christian and love Jesus Christ and have a beautiful wife and two beautiful daughters which they are already into adult. and one of other friend of mine, she used to be lesbian for long time, and all of suddenly God brought her out of it and now she is deaf pastor in michgian. wow God can do anything in his power to bring them out of the darkness. we need to continue pray for the lost souls.

I have to agree with David R. Some people have a predispostion to certain things. Some are able, through the help of our Lord to conquer their predispostion or "besetting" sin and some are unable. Because some of us were able to do that doesn't make us any better.
Here's my point and I'm sure some will disagree. Just because I was able through the help from the Lord alone to overcome something because I cried out to Him, doesn't make me any better than the person who can't. I know many who wail over their sin/s and cry out to God and are repentant...and yes, they are saved, but still are ashamed and unable to overcome their besetting sin.
Here's the difference. It's one thing to flaunt our sin in the face of others with pride and another to be ashamed, try to hide because we are ashamed and ask for forgiveness. God looks at our heart.
I wasn't quite sure how to take that statement by the pope. Was he saying "all are inclusive and anything goes."? Or was he saying, "I can't judge that because only God knows our heart."????

Shiloh, Well said and very true. Some are saying (articles I read)
that this was taken as an open door for tolerance and acceptance
I believe without repentance. And some are saying the opposite.
But, according to other statements he has made on this issue,
I believe he is paving a way in the Vatican for a more liberal
view, or better yet an acceptance in the way society has now
embraced this lifestyle. I agree with both you and David R.
once they have accepted Christ in their lives, they no longer
should have the label of G**, they will struggle just like
the rest of us in whichever sin besets our lives. But, we know
that with God he see's us all as Righteous through the
Blood of Jesus Christ, there is no longer any condemnation.
Thank God for Our Savior, and in His own words "IT IS FINISHED"
Love You Sis.

PS: Let me put it this way:
Society condones the sin and embraces the lifestyle
Christians do not condone the sin, but embraces the person and
pray for their salvation.

I agree that as Christians, we must strike a balance between upholding God's Word and making sure we don't condemn anyone. Doctrinal purity is as important as tolerance - and by tolerance I don't mean tolerating the act but being more compassionate toward each other, lifting each other up when we stumble, and praying that the Holy Spirit will continue to work in our hearts towards perfection. We all sin, and sanctification is a lifetime process. Spiritual maturity is not an overnight thing. To provide a more blunt scenario: If gays walked into our church, we will, by all means, gladly welcome them just as we welcome all kinds of sinners. And hope that by ministering to them, which takes years and years, they will be transformed from glory to glory.

On the other hand, the Pope's statement is seen by many liberals as the first step towards accepting gay marriage as a legitimate union approved by God. And seeing how the RCC "might" play a huge role in the end times, I wouldn't be surprised if they gradually became more liberal in their approach.

And that's the direction that I hope the evangelical churches don't move into.

great replies to this thread ~~

If the Pope gets too lenient over g. a. y.s , he will be the first to go against the 'sacrament' of marriage as it is defined within the Catholic church ~~ we'll see, ~~~ hoping the true believers will be snatched away before then ~~

and this, from Jimmy DeYoung's scriptural perspective:
http://news.prophecytoday.com/

Reading this yesterday, I was thinking our world is sure there....applauding those who commit sin.

Romans 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. 29 They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.

Morningstar and Sammy, I think you both expressed that a lot better than me and I agree.

Donna,Sis thanks for that link. Jimmy DeYoung article does explain
why they RCC are heading in the direction of acceptance. He also
brought out a few things I was not aware of for the reason why
they are taking this stance on Homosexuality. It makes sense to
me now.