Great points one and all. To be sure I have also vascilated between both extremes. I know all things are possible with the Lord, but may not always be probable. Indeed, much discernment is needed. I also am weary of many promises that have been made that have fallen short. I also am guilty of believing that I have heard from the Lord, and haven't, and having felt the Lord let me down. Although a consistently spirit controlled life is impossible, when manifested it is truly glorious. I try really hard not to throw out the baby with bath water, but am also mindful that the baby doesn't live in the tub. The prophetic is truly a gift of God. I also guard my heart against SELF - DECEPTION. I can be deceived on occasion, by many things, people, and by the enemy, but truly guard against being constantly self-deceived. Lastly, I believe that our God given emotions are legitimate, but have limits. Love, compassion, empathy, etc. and like emotions are valid but can also be mis-placed, when it violates the heart of God. I find that generally emotions are 180 degrees in conflict with and tear down un-conditional love. Either His towards us, or ours towards him and others. For those that are led by their emotions only always vascilate. Point being, there is a time for emotions, and time to set them aside. This also is the biggest problem with psycology. A multi billion dollar industry which strives on but one all important question, How does that make you feel? Who cares. How many marriages have been broken by this false remedy! Emotions and un-conditional love are diametrically opposed. So too, when sprinkled with prophecy, it is so deceiving.

Love & blessings...Tender Reed

Well said, TR. I agree with you on all points.

Lavoitheway, Shiloh, Becka Becks, very well said, as we well know, The Holy Spirit is not dormant in us and continues to work in each and everyone of us
in teaching and guiding us through the Word. He imparts to each of us Gifts of the Spirit which differs in each individual believer, and in instances it is for personal edification, at times for the body of Christ, but never delineating from the Word of God. Does He give some of us Dreams? Yes He does as I have experienced, but 95% of my dreams I disregard as they are confusing and have no biblical soundness to them, and most are just for me personally. Is the Lord quickening our spirits of His soon return? Yes He is and I'm sure this is one thing we can all agree on because we know this in our spirits as we read God's signs of the end times in His Word and seeing evil growing worse and worse. One thing I have learned if I've learned anything, is one of the Rules of learning the scriptures is
"Let scripture speak to you, do not speak your own words into scripture."
God Bless.

Hi Lavoietheway,

As some one who has been led by God in different ways, I must disagree with you. I haven't gotten to read every response here and have only skimmed the reading you posted. However, I can respond directly to your thoughts.

The Word is God--Scripture is God's breath(John 1:1,2 Tim 3:16-17). God is also "Spirit". I agree with "Make it count" in that you seem to leave out the importance of the Holy Spirit's work in our lives. But the Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit does several things. These scriptures I will post, regardless of the surrounding context, teach what is true for all believers, simply because it tells what the Holy Spirit does, which does not change with us.

"When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say." Luke 12:12

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13

"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." Romans 8:16

The Holy Spirit teaches us. Jesus knows the scripture do as well, but if he is only talking about the scriptures, why bring up the Spirit?


God does not have to speak us but he DOES. Why? Simply because he isn't a walking text book, rather he is a living, breathing God. He has a personality, he has a plan, he has a great love. He want to talk to us, he wants to interact us, not just through reading the bible, but through his Spirit. For example, I'm a college student. I can be sitting in the library, writing a paper, be far away from my bible, yet feel a nice warmth on my back. Other times, I can stop and think. "I love you God", then get back to work only to have something flash through my mind so quickly, I couldn't have even thought it. "I love you too sweetheart". That's just one example of a living , breathing God.

Moreover, there are believers in the world who don't even have access to the Word, some who can't even read. As for us who do have it, it is the Holy Spirit that will teach us how to apply scripture. For all believers, its the Holy Spirit that will allow us to be intimate with God.

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

Don't get me wrong, I agree that scripture is supreme. I don't believe there will be any new revelation given in this life but the revelation we do have is neither easy to apply nor study. Anyone who reads the bible can tell you its DEEP, full of riches. There are mysteries of theology that need to be explained. The Holy Spirit will allow you to go deeper in the scripture, not your own mind. "The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." 1 Corinthians 2:10


Therefore God can lead us in a variety of ways, whether it be just through reading the bible or a combination of his Spirit confirming or illuminating a principle in the bible. Each of the ways will compliment and be confirmed by Scripture, not contradict or depart from it. You and this article are proposing that the believer be limited when God want us to have both his Spirit and his Word.

Finally, I will leave you with these thoughts. If the we are not to be "led" why is there so much emphasis in scripture on testing the spirits? After all, what's to test? Can't we just read the bible and figure out what's in it or not? Secondly, what about Paul's mention of the Lord opening "doors" ( 2 Corinthians 2:12, Colossians 4:2)? Why does the Psalmist proclaim "Delight in the Lord and he shall give you the desires of your heart?" (37:4). That psalm can literally be interpreted as God will give you the desires you feel if you focus on him. Many believers, including myself, have attested to having a dream, a strong desire to do something, from our own feelings, and found it later to be God's plan for us ( I personally had someone confirm and tell me what I already "felt" was where God called me, without me telling that person anything at all about it).

God is the maker of our feelings. He can use them. He can lead a person by planting thoughts and even "feelings" in that person. I don't think its wise to dismiss them. The key is not to ignore your feelings but rather discern if your feelings are from God, the devil--or most naturally, yourself. Basically, use the gift of discernment and compare your findings with scripture. Other believers can help with this discernment as well.

***I will also add that those who receive the more "special" experiences can be prone to pride. I fully confess of falling into that sin myself. But the Lord has shown me more and more "not to think of myself more highly than I aught", that no matter our gift we are all equal in his eyes. And our gifts should be used to edify the body, not show off.

I think we need to take a step back here and clarify what we're talking about.

The question here is NOT:

1) does God still speak?
2) does God lead us?
3) does God give us things that we can or should share with one another?

Nobody is arguing that these things can, and do happen. Yes, our God is a living God. Yes, God still speaks. To deny that is to close ourselves off to hearing the voice of the Lord, in our daily lives, and in our lives together as His church. I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth, but I don't see anyone in this thread denying that the Lord still speaks.

What IS being said:

1) The Word has primacy. Always, over all things.
2) We must "test the spirits, to see if these things are of God".

What this means for us is that while yes, the Lord speaks, we must test that which we have heard. We have to test those things that we "feel led" to share, against God's Word. Why do we do this? ...because if the message is truly of the Lord, it will be consistent with the revelation the Lord has handed down in His Word, because the origin is the same - Jesus Christ!

This is the point of this thread.

Now, what I think is being stressed, and what I wholeheartedly agree NEEDS to be stressed, and particularly now, as we see the Lord's return approaching, is that we need to be ever more vigilant in terms of sorting out our own thoughts and feelings from divine revelation; and particularly in a community such as this, where we have Christians "old" and "new", some of whom know Scripture inside out, and some of whom may be coming to it with new eyes. We have a responsibility, as a community, to be discerning, to be careful, and to be immersed in God's Word to the point where we can spot the difference. This is why the moderation process here is so important.

...but with that said, there is an increasing concern among many members here (and it's a concern that yes, I share), that our conversations are more and more often relating to things that aren't Scriptural and don't have that Biblical basis. Now, I think we have fair reasons for this - as I've said before, I think we're all longing so much for the Lord's return, and spending so much time looking up, that it's beginning to make our eyeballs bleed. That's completely understandable. However, it does stress just how important it is that we get back to the basics of adhering to God's Word, and testing everything we hear against that. ...and while for many of us, we can sit down and discern these things for ourselves, there are those among us who are newer to the faith who simply may not have the tools yet to do so - and they need to be a) protected, and b) given the example of a community that is willing to "test the spirits" in all things.

So... my point?

don't be discouraged here. If you feel the Lord is leading you to speak, nobody, by any means, wishes to discourage you from doing so...

BUT...

Biblically, Scripturally, and even according to the rules of our little community here, we should, we MUST, test these things FIRST. Prayerfully, earnestly seeking the Lord to find out whether this is for one, or for all - and testing by His Word to see if it is consistent with what He has shown us to be true.

Now, I know that many here DO these things.
If that's you, then the exhortation of this thread doesn't apply to you as a criticism, but of course serves as a reminder to us all.

Either way, it's a timely reminder of just how important it is that we stick closely to the Word of God, especially as we see the Day approaching. There is so much confusion out there, and so many different theories, ideas and conflicting arguments. We need to be detracting from that noise with a single, coherent message: The Lord is coming soon, and the signs He has given are all around us... and not adding to that noise.

Thank you, Benjamin. You layed that out well.
No one is saying that people don't hear from the Lord. People seemed to get a little defensive about that. If someone says, "I have a word for the body.", wouldn't it would be foolish of us not to test the spirits and to just take anything we read or hear at face value? God speaks through His Word. A word for someone or the body will never contradict God's written Word. That's all anyone is trying to say here. If someone wants to chide me for testing the spirits, then there is a serious problem. I would tell anyone, "TEST THIS" after I gave them something that I thought was a word from the Lord.
Lovoietheway, sorry your thread got hi-jacked.

Keeping a balanced perspective ~~ to deny dreams and visions are for today needs discernment as well ~~~

In the New Testament, we read how Ananias had a vision instructing him to go and pray for a man named Saul from Taurus (who became Paul)

Cornelius had a vision of an angelical visitor and was told to send for Peter.

Noticeably, Ananias and Cornelius were not the original 12 apostles ~~ hence, dreams and visions are for today's church ~~

discernment?, yes, ~~ defensive, no . . ~~

There you are Shiloh - I was about to do a shout out for you! Everything OK? Kevin OK?

Oh, and right on Benjamin (so this shows it's not a thread highjacking

Hi, NFJF!

Everything is going well. Kev is on the mend. Still a ways to go but God is so good. Doing better than expected. Thankyou for asking. Just tired and trying to keep up with everything.



This is me on RITA right now...lol

Thank you Benjamin, for clearing up any misconceptions it seemed to have gotten off track a bit. No one is denying that there are no Dreams/Vision for today because there are and I think you clarified that well. There have been Dreams/Visions posted on this site that were truly wonderful which I believe Glorified the Lord. All in All...if it does not Glorify the Lord then that Dream or Vision should be examined and tested, especially now as we are getting closer to the Lords Return for the Powers & Principalities of the air seem to be increasing their activity also, which means that deception is also on the rise even in the Church.

I initially responded to this when I posted.

"I have been troubled by some posts (on various sites, not just RITAN) that almost seem to say that God uses your feelings and your thoughts to provide guidance, even of a prophetic nature. I just cannot reconcile that with the fact that the Lord gave us the Scripture for our learning, for correction, for prophecy - is His Word not sufficient?"

At first I thought Lavoietheway was saying God cannot even do this for an individual believer. However upon doing a more careful reading of the entire thread I see the question really is if God will speak through a "prophet" to the church at large, since we already have scripture. As the thread developed, there was more and more explanation on the need to test the spirit. I apologize for being hasty and missing the overall message.

As some have already explained, I do believe he can speak through prophets today.

Prophecy is speaking words of comfort, exhortation and edification to another person. I believe in addition to "forth telling" prophecy can also "foretell". For example, tell a future event for someone's personal life or something that God would like to do in the church at large . It can also remind or alert us of an event already prophesied by the bible. It must always line up with what scripture say and what scripture reveals about the character of God.

Because, God is relational ( he longs for us and is himself a "Trinity") I suspect he still uses prophecy, even though scripture is complete, so that we can learn to depend on one another, be humbled and relate to each other.

"two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said." 1 Corinthians 4:32
It takes humility to recieve a prophecy from God and humility to have a prophecy you gave be tested and scrutinized.

Also, hearing a prophecy from another believer can confirm to you think God is telling you.

In my other post I wanted to stress balance, that we should neither throw away prophetic revelations nor trust them above scripture. Too often once some people get off balance and begin to trust their experiences over scriptures, there will be a cry to "stick with scriptures" as in don't even consider experience anymore. I believe this also wrong. You can easily become pharisaic if you are overly skeptical of dreams, visions, instruction or moves that actually come from the Holy Spirit. This is equally as dangerous as relying only on your experience. You still resist God and can even grieve him by rejecting a prophecy without even testing it.

Of course I'm 100% for testing the spirits. But because it common for us to go from one extreme to the other, I believe this is why Paul said these words " Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. " 1 Thess. 5:19-20

So, we can have the word and spiritual experience as long as we remember to test all things against the word of God and consult with other mature believers.

"Do not be overrighteous,

neither be overwise—

why destroy yourself?

Do not be overwicked,

and do not be a fool—

why die before your time?

It is good to grasp the one

and not let go of the other.

Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes"

Ecclesiastes 7:16-18