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I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

My Dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ, I read something last night that made me wonder if I would make it into heaven and cried myself to sleep! I prayed this morning to have discernment and hope that all of my dear sisters and brothers here at RITA can help me.

This all started when someone here at RITA (can't remember which post it was) had mentioned a website that had stories from people that had NDEs and posted their stories - the name of the site is INSIGHTS OF GOD. Well, I went to that site last night and started to read a few of them - they were the typical NDE stories that you read from time to time, except for one. The one story that really upset me was from a woman by the name of Victoria Nehale. Victoria had an out of body experience where she says that Jesus came to get her and took her to hell so she could warn everyone about hell and that He was coming soon. What upset me was she said that Jesus says that anyone that has any debt (owes anyone money!!!) would NOT make it into heaven!! Well, I owe on my house, my car, my office equipment, my office vehicles, office loans, office credit cards, etc..... there is no way I could pay off all that I owe before the rapture - does that mean I won't make it into heaven???

I am a born again christian - when I read my bible it says that if I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior, that He died on the cross, paid for my sins with His holy blood, rose again in three days, lives again at the right hand of God the father and intercedes for me and confess with my mouth that He is Jesus Christ the Lord - I AM SAVED - But, I owe money - so, I ask the Lord to give me discernment over what I read at that website - all I know is what the bible says, so why is what she said on that website upsetting me so much? I pay my tithes, I pay my bills, why would owing money (which I pay my monthly payments) keep me from heaven?

I am going to place my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe what He said about what it takes to be with Him in heaven - also I am going to stop going to some of these websites with the NDEs - they really can mess up your thinking if you are not careful!! Love all of you!! Your sister in Christ, Ms. Victor

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Ms. Victor, I'm berating myself for not posting a WARNING when someone suggested that site. You see, my husband and I found that site a couple years ago and read everything that was on there. But ever since, we have both had problems with fear. Especially Jake. While he never questioned his salvation before, he now goes through periods where he struggles with wondering if he's done anything that might land him in Hell (or not done something that he should do if he wants to go to Heaven). THIS FEAR IS NOT FROM GOD!!!

I would encourage you to get in the Word, and listen to the truth of the Holy Spirit, who is inside of you.

Also, I'm in the middle of re-reading the book "Angels on Assignment", and it is GREAT! Full of God's TRUTH! I think you should read it , too.

Don't let the devil steal your joy and closeness to the Lord.

"He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful." (1 Cor. 1:8-9)

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Thank you dear Charity - that is exactly what I was thinking - if you had to pay off all of your loans, etc, - wouldn't that be "WORKS" and not GRACE? If I have to depend on anything I have to do to be saved then that would be "WORKS" and I am saved by "GRACE" it is a gift!!!

I am going to get the book you suggested and read it - and keep believing what the bible says!!!! Love you Charity! Your sister in Christ, Ms. Victor

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Also, just bring your debts to the Lord and ask Him to help you with them. He can make a way where there seems to be no way. He looks at the heart....and you have a beautiful heart, in love with your Savior & eager to please Him.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Ms. Victor . . . Jesus will not leave us nor forsake all who love Him . . . And don't we know none here would walk away from our God . .

Take hold of this verse, dear sister . . yea, from the very lips of our Lord:

"My Father Who gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's Hand" . . John 10:29

The Written Word is our final Source, . . praise God:

"I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus" . . . Phil 1:6

"I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day" . . 2 Tim 1:12

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Thank you again dear sister! I have brought my debts before the Lord and asked for help - running two businesses just takes a certain amount of debt - this down turn in the economy hasn't helped! Love you Charity!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Both "Angels On Assignment" and "The Man Who Talked With Angels" can be read for free online (I printed mine out and put it in a notebook):

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/index2.html

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/sequel/index.html

Also, Pastor Buck's original angel sermons recorded on cassette tapes in the late 1970s are available for listening (streaming audio) or download in .WMA format:

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/sermons/index.html

(thanks to Mark Armstrong for this information)

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Donna
Ms. Victor . . . Jesus will not leave us nor forsake all who love Him . . . And don't we know none here would walk away from our God . .

Take hold of this verse, dear sister . . yea, from the very lips of our Lord:

"My Father Who gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's Hand" . . John 10:29

The Written Word is our final Source, . . praise God:

"I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus" . . . Phil 1:6

"I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day" . . 2 Tim 1:12


Dearest Donna - AMEN!! That is exactly what I am feeling this morning - but boy last night I was upset!! How could I ever had doubted my being saved? You really have to be careful reading some of these NDEs - you think, was that true? Could they had seen hell? But, I know the Lord died for me - I am going to put on blinders to all nonsense that says anything different than what the bible says!! Love you Donna!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Charity
Both "Angels On Assignment" and "The Man Who Talked With Angels" can be read for free online (I printed mine out and put it in a notebook):

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/index2.html

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/sequel/index.html

Also, Pastor Buck's original angel sermons recorded on cassette tapes in the late 1970s are available for listening (streaming audio) or download in .WMA format:

http://www.angelsonassignment.org/sermons/index.html


Thank you Charity!!! I am going to print them out and put them in a binder too! You are too good at the computer girl!!! Love you Charity!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

I got those links from Mark Armstrong, who put them on Texas Sue's thread a couple days ago. "Thanks, Mark"

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Charity
I got those links from Mark Armstrong, who put them on Texas Sue's thread a couple days ago. "Thanks, Mark"


A BIG THANKS TO MARK TOO!!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Ms Victor.

God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind 2 Tim 1:7

and He is also not a God of confusion 1 Cor. 14:33

and we are to take every thought captive 2 Cor 10:5

So when you get these thought rebuke them, and resist the devil and he will flee from you. I am not saying these thought are from the devil but they are not from God.

Sarah

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Sarah
Ms Victor.

God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind 2 Tim 1:7

and He is also not a God of confusion 1 Cor. 14:33

and we are to take every thought captive 2 Cor 10:5

So when you get these thought rebuke them, and resist the devil and he will flee from you. I am not saying these thought are from the devil but they are not from God.

Sarah


AMEN SARAH!!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Love you, too, Ms. Victor, glad we share the same name . . . . . . Jesus has hold of you, sis . .



our citizenship already is set in Heaven . .



wonder what name our Lord has written in our book for us? . . soon, we'll be flown to a perfect eternity . .





we LOVE JESUS SO MUCH!!!!

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Dear Ms. Victor,

I beg you, PLEASE don't read any more of those NDE stories. We are cleansed from the blood of Jesus of all our sins and it's through His blood that we have eternal salvation. I'm convinced that the devil uses these stories to torment Christians and take away our assurance of our salvation. He can't touch our salvation because we are blood-bought by the Lord Jesus Christ, but if he can torment us by fear, he'll do it.

Jesus paid the price on the cross!!! We do good works as a result of our salvation out of gratitude, not out of fear.

Just to reassure you even more, I heard Jack Van Impe a few weeks ago say on his end of his program that having debt would NOT keep a person out of heaven. He said that as a response to someone who had asked him that question at the end of his show. (I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking that the reason the person asked that question as a result of reading the same thing as you did.)

Rebuke the spirit of fear, because fear comes from the enemy not from the Lord. Remember how our Lord rebuked the Pharisses for doing all the "right" things but yet their hearts were far from God? If our salvation could be bought by being debt-free, why did Jesus die???? We are saved by faith and not by works, least any man would boast.

Ms. Victor, you have a heart after God. Your love and compassion for your brothers and sisters here shines forth. People will know that we are Christians by our love, and that is so evident by the love you have shown us.

My prayer for you, dear sister, is that the Lord showers you with His love, removes all of your fear, and takes all the negative things that ou have read out of your mind, heart, and memory. I ask this in Jesus name. Amen.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Donna - yes, I am glad we share our name too! We could be like Thing1 and Thing2 from Dr. Seuss - Donna1 and Donna2 - I will be Donna2 because you are number 1 in my book!!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Ms Victor,

I also read the NDE of Victoria Nehale a few years ago. She was speaking of people with debt and not paying their lenders. In a sense, this boils down to stealing. If you pay your debt regularly as agreed with your lender, you are not guilty of withholding the debt, and thus you are not guilty of stealing. You are not sinning and will not go to hell on this account.

Many people borrow money from friends, family and benefactors, but when the time arives to pay, they disappear. This means they are wilfully sinning and will only become free of this sin when they either start to repay the debt in instalments or repay in full.

The Bible is only against debts because the borrower becomes the slave of the lender ie if you do not pay
your homeloan, your home will be taken back.

In the perfect World there will be no debts. We are not living in a perfect world but in a World where satan's financial system exists. He wants to make us all slaves to him through his system.

Please, do not be judged if you have debts and you regularly pay your instalments. There are very few people in the World that can afford to pay cash for a house or even a car.

I also want to warn you not to belief all NDE's. The devil will and can use this also to take away your security in the Lord.He always overplays his hand for instance I read of a person going to heaven on a regular basis. I was Blessed until I read that this person had a fish barbeque with Jesus in Heaven. I immediatly discarded this. There is no death in Heaven. How could this fish die in Heaven for a barbeque?

If you have repented and recieved Jesus as your saviour, YOU ARE SAVED. Just rest in Him. AMEN.

Email: vernavn@iafrica.com

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Johann
Ms Victor,

I also read the NDE of Victoria Nehale a few years ago. She was speaking of people with debt and not paying their lenders. In a sense, this boils down to stealing. If you pay your debt regularly as agreed with your lender, you are not guilty of withholding the debt, and thus you are not guilty of stealing. You are not sinning and will not go to hell on this account.

Many people borrow money from friends, family and benefactors, but when the time arives to pay, they disappear. This means they are wilfully sinning and will only become free of this sin when they either start to repay the debt in instalments or repay in full.

The Bible is only against debts because the borrower becomes the slave of the lender ie if you do not pay
your homeloan, your home will be taken back.

In the perfect World there will be no debts. We are not living in a perfect world but in a World where satan's financial system exists. He wants to make us all slaves to him through his system.

Please, do not be judged if you have debts and you regularly pay your instalments. There are very few people in the World that can afford to pay cash for a house or even a car.

I also want to warn you not to belief all NDE's. The devil will and can use this also to take away your security in the Lord.He always overplays his hand for instance I read of a person going to heaven on a regular basis. I was Blessed until I read that this person had a fish barbeque with Jesus in Heaven. I immediatly discarded this. There is no death in Heaven. How could this fish die in Heaven for a barbeque?

If you have repented and recieved Jesus as your saviour, YOU ARE SAVED. Just rest in Him. AMEN.


AMEN, Johann, AMEN!!!!

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Dearest Johann and Leenie - thank you for your prayers and advice!! I am so blessed to have all of my brothers and sisters here at RITA!!! I agree with you both and came to the same conclusion after asking the Lord for discernment! I also think the devil uses whatever he can to discourage us! I can't wait to get to heaven to be with my Lord Jesus Christ!!! Love all of you!!! Ms. Victor

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

The race is almost over ,. . oh, dear ones, we're almost HOME. . .

the church/bride sees the final stretch . . closer to the Light, to our LORD JESUS in the air .. . nearer, nearer to THEE oh, GOD



Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Donna1 - I love the last painting!!! How beautiful they both are! I sure hope the Lord comes for us soon! Until then we have His work to do!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???



Ms. Victor
- I sure hope the Lord comes for us soon!



Until then we have His work to do!!


Amen, Donna, amen

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Johann...what happens if you are unable to pay your debt? For example when this economy goes belly-up and you lose your job and can't pay and you diligently seek work but can find none. Is this considered sin?

I know that we could get our house mortgage amount reduced if we just didn't pay it as we live in a state that had a huge real estate bubble that popped. I know people who have done this and now owe what their house is worth. Although we are no upside down on our house as we moved to the state at the peak of the bubble that popped a few months later I told my husband that we owe that amount and will continue to pay it while we are able.

I do wonder what will happen if we become unable to pay the debt if he loses his job. I don't care all that much if we lose our house, but I do care about not paying what I owe....not to say I want to lose the house, but I know I could get some sort of work to pay for rent on an apartment....so it isn't my attachment to the house. We have other debt in which they can't 'repossess' something if we don't pay, so I worry about that debt too.

Just wonder what the moral issue is with not being able to pay a debt even if you want to pay it.

Retrospectively we wouldn't have moved as this is what got us in the financial shape we are in, but I can't go back in time and NOT buy this house.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Donna1 - LOVE the lion!!! I have lions all over my living room because they represent our dear, sweet Lord!!! I love lambs and lions - wonder why??? Love you Donna1

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

This is my favorite, pic . . . I know you'll like it too, sis . .

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Lisaleenie
Dear Ms. Victor,

I beg you, PLEASE don't read any more of those NDE stories. We are cleansed from the blood of Jesus of all our sins and it's through His blood that we have eternal salvation. I'm convinced that the devil uses these stories to torment Christians and take away our assurance of our salvation. He can't touch our salvation because we are blood-bought by the Lord Jesus Christ, but if he can torment us by fear, he'll do it.

Jesus paid the price on the cross!!! We do good works as a result of our salvation out of gratitude, not out of fear.


Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Dee,

If I remember the NDE correctly, the Lord only wants you to come before Him and ask Him to give you the means to pay of your debt. If the Lord does not give you the means, He will not hold it against you. He does not want you just to forget it. He wants you to come to Him and trust Him.

If you come into debt due to circumstances not under your control as in the situation where the house buble burst, I believe that the Lord will not hold it against you.

The situation here concerns people who wilfully make debt with the motivation of not repaying the loan ie stealing.

If I were you I will bring this before the Lord and sleep peacefully afterwards. The motivation in your heart is what the Lord looks at and if it is pure, you have nothing to fear. You are SAVED if you have repented and made Jesus your LORD.

Email: vernavn@iafrica.com

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Donna
This is my favorite, pic . . . I know you'll like it too, sis . .


WOW!!! I would wear that if I could!!!

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Oh my goodness..just last night reading the Word--This subject was exactly what Jesus was describing..Jesus told people that if someone borrowed something from you--don't even expect it back! Let them HAVE IT! Don't worry about it. He didn't say --if they don't repay you your loan, I'm gonna get them..He said--if they ask you for something--give it to them without expecting to get it back! What does THAT say to us? If they want a coat---go ahead and give them your scarf too..in essence! DON'T EXPECT REPAYMENT. Now that's our attitude to have regarding loaning things to others. I 'm not sure if it also applies to if they steal something from us--I think same message applies! Just let them keep it!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it's the money issue Jesus was implying--God knows how our financial system is set up today..impossible NOT to be in debt!
I think HE was implying it's the heart attitude He is concerned about instead! If we're responsible with what He's entrusted to us and our good responsiblity in being a good steward and trying our best to repay with a good heart. It can be called stealing if you don't make an effort to repay your bills...that could also apply to tithing too...Stealing from GOD!!!!!!!!!!I sometimes wonder about messages that People who have died bring back with them..claiming it was Jesus who said ---whatever....

Email: steffiefree@rogers.com

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Stephanie - isn't it amazing how you were reading that in the bible as I was getting upset over reading that on that website? I agree, some of these NDEs are a bit scary - I think one needs to have alot of discernment with them!! Thanks for your comment Stephanie - it means alot to me! Love you dear sister! Ms. Victor

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Thanks, Johann. That does help a lot. Part of the situation is that I want to help a friend out and GIVE her some money (I never loan, but just give...my mom taught me that a long time ago). But I don't have the money at the moment, but will when I begin working next month. The money could easily go to pay down debt, but part of me would rather give to her and not pay down my debt...if that makes sense. But then I wonder if I am robbing Peter to pay Paul. I fully intend on paying off my debt...it is just going to take a long time.

I'm going to pray about this though, because it seems like something I should just lay at His feet.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

So much good information on this thread from everyone. It occurred to me as I was reading it that the antichrist will IMITATE Jesus when he comes in the trib, what if satan is imitating Jesus in some of these NDE's to stir up fear in Christians and to make non-Christians think it is impossible to live as God's child without angering God? I have never had that thought before - it just popped up so I thought I would share it.

The book Charity is talking about helped me with the truth about God and heaven more than anything I have ever read after the Bible. "Angels On Assignment" is so wonderful. I don't know how many times I've read it. If you can't get to a bookstore just read it online with the links that Mark gave us. There is a scripture that warns, "let no one steal your crown". I am wondering if the fear stirred by these false testimonies would be the thing that would cause some to stop trying to please God, to stop looking for His appearing and therefore lose those crowns? I don't know if that is what it means, just wondering.

I will try to find that post from Roland Buck's book and bump it up.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Texas Sue - You have a very good point! Last night after I had read that NDE I was very upset - almost to the point that I felt hopeless by not being able to be dept free by the time of the rapture - I'm sure that made satan very happy for me to feel hopeless! I really think that some of these NDE are bad for christians to read. I am looking forward to reading the books that Charity posted a link to. Thank you Texas Sue, you trully are a wise christian sister!!! Love you Texas Sue! Your sister in Christ, Ms. Victor

Website: Rapture In The Air

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Thank you Ms. Victor, I love you too! You are always so kind and sweet to everyone and I sure do appreciate that.

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Yaaaayy! I just got my book "Angels on Assignment" from Amazon.com today! Can't wait to get started!

Re: I'M CONFUSED OR AM I???

Shirley, I tell ya, like all here who've read Roland Buck's "Angels on Assignment", you won't be disappointed. (thank you T/Sue for reminding us of this wonderful book).

Get ready to be encouraged, and inspired, and feeling wonderfully blessed~~ it's so worth the read!!!

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