CNSNews.com
First Openly Gay Episcopal Bishop Says
St. Paul Was Condemning Homosexual Acts by Heterosexuals
Thursday, February 04, 2010
By Karen Schuberg




Rt. Rev. V. Gene Robinson, the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal church.
(CNSNews.com)

– In a section of his New Testament letter to the Romans (1:22-27) dealing with God’s admonitions against same-sex relations, St. Paul was actually writing about heterosexuals who engage in same-sex acts and not homosexuals, said the Rt. Rev. V. Gene Robinson, the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal church.

“We have to understand that the notion of a homosexual sexual orientation is a notion that’s only about 125 years old," Bishop Robinson told CNSNews.com.

"That is to say, St. Paul was talking about people that he understood to be heterosexual engaging in same-sex acts.

It never occurred to anyone in ancient times that a certain minority of us would be born being affectionately oriented to people of the same sex.”

At the National Press Club on Tuesday, CNSNews.com asked Bp. Robinson: “St. Paul wrote in the Book of Romans, ‘Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. … Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. … Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.’

So my question is, was St. Paul right in—about engaging in homosexual acts as being against nature?”

Bishop Robinson answered: “The question you ask takes about two days to answer, but I’ll try to give you the Cliffs Notes version which is:

One of the things we have to understand is that any piece of scripture needs to be understood in its own context. We have to understand that the notion of a homosexual sexual orientation is a notion that’s only about 125 years old.

“That is to say, St. Paul was talking about people that he understood to be heterosexual engaging in same-sex acts," said Bishop Robinson. "It never occurred to anyone in ancient times that a certain minority of us would be born being affectionately oriented to people of the same sex. So it did seem like against their nature to be doing so.”

“The other thing about St. Paul,” Robinson said, “is that he was also speaking out against a practice known to him and both the Roman and the Greek world, and would have been known in the Palestinian culture there of an older man taking a younger boy under his wing, using him sexually, and so on. No one’s—that’s child abuse.

No one is arguing for that today. We would all be against that. We would all agree with St. Paul on that.”

“So the real question when you look at scripture is, ‘What did it mean to the person who wrote it?’” said Bishop Robinson. “’What did it mean for the audience to whom it was written?’ And only then can we ask, ‘Is it eternally binding?’ And in this case, I would say, the things that St. Paul was against, I’m against, too.”

Robinson added, “The question is, are there any answers there for what we’re asking today, which is the rightfulness of faithful, monogamous, lifelong-intentioned relationships between people of the same sex, and the Bible simply does not address that.”

CNSNews.com asked the follow-up question, “So you would say then that St. Paul is incorrect in this passage?”

Bishop Robinson said, “No. I think St. Paul was absolutely correct in his own context given what he knew, and given the behavior which he was describing. The questions we’re asking today are about a completely different set of circumstances.”

Bishop Robinson was asked by President Barack Obama to deliver the invocation at the opening presidential inaugural ceremonies at the Lincoln Memorial on Jan. 18, 2009.

Bishop Robinson spoke with CNSNews.com following a press conference to announce the “American Prayer Hour,” a new, multi-city event designed to “affirm inclusive values and call on all nations, including Uganda, to decriminalize the lives of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.”

In my opinion, the question of whether some people are born with this inclination is debateable and God will deal with these people on a one on one basis as He does with all of us.

The church, however, has no excuse to allow this man to serve in the pulpit as it should be obvious from the Bible that this would not be allowed. The Lord calls this behavior an abomination and the people that are called to ministry are to have a much higher behavioral standard that the lay person.

This should make it a no brainer then for the hierachy of any denomination to determine that a person with this bent should not be allowed to serve in the ministry in this capacity.

Couple months ago I heard of a survey where 56% of the pastors believe that there is more ways into Heaven, instead of Jesus..

This whole world is very sick.. NOT just the US..

We are going up soon.... (Luke 21;36 Pray always)

Joseph

RJ, If you think about it, a key target for Satans attacks would be the pastor! I can believe these figures. I think the people in the lay positions are a little better off! Just my opinion. I guess we should be praying especially for the pastors.

I also believe we are going up soon!!

Hi Melissa . . um, have to disagree with you, sis, that some people are bent/born to be gay and can't help it. Gay genes are not formed or created by our Creator. My opinion.

I'm thinking, if so, then, too, could killing and stealing be a gene-oriented behavior?

Anyway, Jesus calls all the above sin . . I am always fascinated how sins are now called alcoholism, pro-choice, gene oriented, etc. etc.


1)Dr. Dean Hamer who failed to find a "gay gene":

"Homosexuality is not purely genetic. Environmental factors play a role.

There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. I don't think that we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."

2.) Dr. Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:

"Absolutely not. From twin studies we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited.

Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors, not negate the psychosocial factors."

("New Evidence of a "Gay Gene," by Anastasia Toufexis, Time, November 13, 1995, Vol. 146. Issue 20, p.95)

3.) British researchers generated comparable results in an identical-twin study. Their conclusion? The surprisingly low odds that both twins were homosexual.

The study by them: "confirmed that genetic factors are insufficient explanation for the development of sexual orientation."

(King, M and McDonald, E. Homosexuals Who Are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 160: 407-409 (1992).

4a.)Homosexual researcher Simon Levay, who studied the hypothalamic differences between the brains of heterosexuals and homosexuals:

"I didn't show that gay men are born that way, which is the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."

4b.)Dr. Simon Levay: The most widely held opinion [on causation of homosexuality] is that multiple factors play a role.

Levay, Simon (1996). ***** Science, MIT Press.

5.) Dr. J. Satinover:

"Research studies on homosexuality by Dr's Dean Hamer, Michael Bailey, Richard Dillard, Simon Levay. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski have failed to show proof of a gay gene.

There is no scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic. The media has sensationalized and perpetuated the myth of a homosexual gene."

Satinover, J. M.D. (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids. Baker Books

6.) Another of Dr. Jeffery Satinover's conclusions in "The Gay Gene":

"There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic--and none of the reseaerch itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do when speaking in sound bites to the public."

(Jeffery Satinover, M.D. The Journal of Human Sexuality, 1996, p.8)

7.) The American Psychological Association:

"Many scientists share the view that sexual orientation is shaped for many people at an early age through complex interactions of biology, psychological and social factors."

(The American Psychological Association's pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."

8.) The American Psychiatric Association (2000):

"no replicated scientific studies showing any specific biological etiology for homosexuality."

9.) Sociologist Steven Goldberg:

"I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors."

Donna, I have formed my opinion because of people I have known and I think it can be be one of three things genetic (meaning an anomaly), psychologic or just willful sin. All three are an abomination and if someone has this bent they should just be celebate or stay single, in order to obey God's commands.

That is my opinion. We live in a fallen world and our flesh is not perfect.

I do not condone this but I don't have this and have tried to understand where these people are coming from. It seems that my whole life for some reason I have always known someone that was gay. I have observed these people and have come to my own conclusions.

I do not condone any sin, but every human on this planet is a sinner of some sort. This is just a class of sin that is especially bad because it affects the person so deeply as do all sexual sins.

Also, while on this subject, I am not for gay marriage, I believe it is an attempt to change God's statues. It is one thing to sin and another to try to change God's statutes.

We are all guilty of sin - but changing God's statutes is really out there and will be judged very strongly. Just my opinion.

It's the flaunting of this sin, that proves to me it's the culture we're in . . this sin, wasn't a pressured 'agenda' even 15 years ago, it wasn't 'in our face progressive, but was 'hidden' . . it seems the gays are not satisfied lest they push their agenda . . . I honestly believe Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by our God because of this sin.

I have a confession, dear ones . . I have a twin brother who is gay, and tells me it's genetic. NOT. He's 65 years old, and still defends his lifestyle. Whenever Dennis and I are with others I've not met before, he introduces me as the 'straight' one, with narrow thinking, and calls himself the crooked one.

Dennis (my twin) and I have had some intense conversations, and whenever I speak about Jesus, which has been for many years, he says to me, 'Donna you have Jesus your way, and I'll have him my way . . .

Donna, I will pray for him!! My daughter is also gay as you know and she had a very obvious conversion at a young age. I believe she is saved but beset with this sin, for whatever reason.

Your brother probably has no idea of how to get out from under this nightmare. God bless you and him both.

I do agree with what you said about this agenda, and that it is a big sign of the end. It is mentioned in both Jude and 2Peter, the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (these books almost mirror eachother), and I believe it is the last big one - maybe because they are obviously trying to change one of God's statues. Maybe that is the last straw!

Praying that your dear twin will be saved! In Jesus name. Amen!

Donna, Here is something that may encourage you. My husbands brother died at 26 from aids, he was also gay.

I had a very vivid dream afterwards (I never met him) about this young man and it involved me talking to him about Jesus and he confirmed to me that he knew Jesus.

I believe the Lord sent me this dream to comfort my husbands family.

Remember, what the devil intends for evil God can use for good and I am praying and trusting that the Lord will use my daughter in the area she is in to reach people for the Lord some how. Praying also that all of her friends are saved. This is a group of people that the Lord has really laid on my heart!

Bless you, Melissa . . we'll keep praying . .

Amen Donna xoxo

I certainly wouldnt want to be standing next to this guy when judgement comes! People who are homosexuals are full of perverted demons...plain and simple---they can be delivered and cast out...it doesnt even make good sense to say a person is born with it when God calls it an abomination...insinuating they are born that way insinuates God is cruel for making someone that way,then punishing them

Or even NOW...LOL....a lightning bolt might come out of the sky and hit him... I agree that it is caused by demonic spirits.



This comment floored me....what about Sodom and Gomorrah??? How can he say this?? What a perversion and twisting of scripture. Makes me sick just reading about it.


Melissa, I have a SIL who is gay, though she was married before. She even had children with him and was SO in love with him that she quit high school and gave everything up for him.....so I don't know...it was a total 180 degree turn for her.

I have read that homosexuality may be a deliverance issue. It comes down through generational curses and can enter through sexual sinning. Every time you have sexual intercourse with a person you aren't just sleeping with them, but everyone they sleep with demonically speaking. These homosexual spirits can enter into a fetus and so the person truly believes he is 'born that way'.

I have no personal experience regarding if complete deliverance from these spirits actually works, but most deliverance ministers seem to have seem a lot of success with it.

One of the reasons many child abuse victims become pedophiles themselves is because of being 'infected' with these spirits when they are abused. Satan preys on the young and uses trauma to fragment a child's soul early on and that way he can take part of it captive and this forms the addictive behaviors that are so hard to break (homosexuality for instance or drug abuse). It breaks down the will of the person keeping them in open sin, so it is hard to stay delivered if this isn't corrected.

It is like a cycle...satan keeps those 'infected' with these demons captive. The longer the demon has been present the deeper the roots and the harder it is to be delivered.

I also don't believe that being homosexual is an automatic sentence to hell. I do believe the Lord judges us individually on our heart condition. As long as a homosexual is truly repentant, the sin is erased. It is a very heavy burden for a Christian to bear, I think.

My heart breaks for people who are captive to this and want to be free.

Dee and Sparrow Good stuff to consider! Probably this is true in some cases. Don't know about all of them though. Something to pray about and for sure pray for these people!

I so agree, Sparrow . .

Right on Sister..

I have to agree with Dee also.. Sodom is a good example of what God thinks of this perversion..

We humans have a "FREE" choice to decide, good or bad..


God bless you all..


Joseph

Melissa, I definitely think the Lord places us where we need to be and He can use our sins to place us specifically for reaching fellow sinners. I think He is very strategic with regards to this.

Dee, I agree with you! When my daughter left home at 16 both of us had I guess what you would call a revelation that the Lord was going to do some type of healing! I never figured out what that was but maybe it had something to do in this area of homosexuality or maybe just the rapture that was coming and He was separating my daughter from our home for His purposes.

I have seen the filthiest of sinners witness for the Lord!! including myself, my husband and others! Now I am really making an effort to not sin but I know that I will not be sin free until I get rid of this flesh and am in my new body!!

I really enjoy your comments Dee and I think you are a lot more mature Christian than you realize! I know that the Lord was teaching me still even in my backslidden years and I imagine he did the same with you!

God bless you sis and I can't wait to meet you in a much better place!!

Amen on the getting rid of the flesh and getting the new body!!! LOL I hate my flesh nature. He laid on my heart to start fasting tomorrow for seven days or as long as I can take it. I have never been successful with fasting and so it is like the last big area that really needs to be broken in me. It will be a full fast, water only. I already told Him that He is going to have to give me the strength to do it, as I know I will have a hard time....especially having to make meals for the kids. I also can get hypoglycemic...so I hope He keeps that at bay.

I do think He worked with me for years actually, but I don't actually 'count it'....LOL...as I don't think my spiritual eyes were opened until September 2008.

One time probably a year before I was born again, I remember being so depressed and I was sitting in the living room and the t.v. just switched channels on its own to a Christian station that I never watched. I saw Lisa Weckel sp? and it was if the Lord was speaking through her to me. I would think of a question and out would come the answer from her mouth. It was like we were having a conversation and I was dumbfounded.

Believe it or not the Lord did this several times to me leading up to September 2008. The t.v. would switch and there the answer to my question would be. It only happened when I was alone and so no one would believe me (like my husband). I did follow the advice given to me too. One as actually a confirmation that I was to have another baby. I had been praying about it. I wanted another one, but my pregnancies are so difficult and it is a big commitment for me to be pregnant as I am so sick.

Anyway...don't know why I am posting this, but I think the Lord was guiding me my whole life as most of my decisions were made for me...meaning I didn't go against what was presented to me...like my husband, the school I went to, the profession I picked, and even my jobs...totally effortless as far as deciding...which is good as I HATE making decisions...LOL.

I wonder if anyone else has had the t.v. phenomenon. I don't usually tell people as they think I am nuts. It hasn't done it again though since the summer of 2007.

Dee, I have never had that type of experience but I can believe it!! My husband and I used to have a lot of arguments and the very next day he would hear the topic we argued about on the way to work! He listened to 2 preachers every morning on his commute and without fail they would talk about the topic that we had "debated."

There has been a lot of different ways that the Lord speaks to me too and I agree that probably we would be locked up for discussing this in a secular arena!! God bless you in your fast!

Dee, Here is an add on thought for you. I wonder if what you said above that "your eyes were opened in 2008" that meant that maybe you have a gift of prophecy that was activated by the Lord or that you were more able to fit into this gift because of your obedience or submitting to the Lord.

I think a lot of people on this site may have the gift of prophecy and that is why they can see the rapture coming. I don't know a lot about this but maybe this is true?!

To us who have the Holy Spirit indwelling inside us, it is very obvious and easy to see the error and falsehood in this gay's arguments..He can basically argue til he's blue in the face--trying to convince us that God meant something else in Scripture --relating to homosexuality..After all he's gotta make it look like his lifestyle is acceptable to God doesn't he?
He believes the lie. And satan comes disguised as an angel of light . Remember seducing spirits as well.
We can read the same verses of Scripture as that gay bishop and interpret it totally differently from him.
We see the error of his ways. Broad is the road to destruction, although it seem right to a man!
Also gay bishop all he has to do is take a look at the real estate area of Sodom and GOmorrah to see what's left of God's hatred of this lifestyle and sin.
Maurice Sklar was given a vision by God as he passed by a homosexual one time, and Maurice saw snakes entering and leaving this person's body orifices . So that should give us an idea of what's going on in the spiritual with the homosexuals! It is their lust and desire of perverted things that they want and crave. They indulge in detestable acts against their own bodies!

Email: steffiefree@rogers.com

You know, Melissa, I didn't receive the dreams until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit about six months later....I didn't even know that there was such a thing as 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' until then. The dreams had a totally different quality to normal dreams. I usually could never remember a dream EVER. It is amazing to me that I went from no dreams to over 50 in 10 months. This doesn't even include the spiritual attack dreams....it is like my mind was a battlefield between good and evil. The Lord used the 'bad' dreams to train me though and to teach me self-deliverance to close the strongholds I had open. Praise the Lord!!!

Once I did that, the bad dreams stopped. Now I just get the occasional 'tricky' dream that is the enemy or my flesh trying to trick me...I had two this last week. I am still learning how to spiritually discern.

Anyway...because of my own experience with this self-deliverance, I TRULY believe a lot of this homosexual stuff is demonic in nature. Just like those who are very lustful or have other addictions have difficulty stopping.

As far as opening demonic strongholds the three biggies are generational curses, sexual sins or occult/witchcraft sins (including drug use). Other sins can open you up to attack, but not so much having an indwelling demon. I think this is why the Lord calls these sins abominations because He knows that it is THESE sins that open us up to the devil more.

So I do believe this is the reason the Lord is so condemning regarding these sins as He knows those who participate will have a WAY harder time living a godly life. Once one demon is in you (a gate keeper power demon), he can let in other demons. The enemy can only attack you with a legal right and if the Lord allows it. Unfortunately people don't realize the importance of breaking generational curses...this makes a child's life SO hard from the beginning.

But I do know that many who are traumatized severely through demonic attacks from a young age may actually be marked with a high anointing from the Lord. The enemy sees this and will attack relentlessly to try to get this person to not realize or fulfill their high calling. The Lord allows it so as to train them for great use later in life according to His good purpose.

At least this is what I believe.

But I do know that many who are traumatized severely through demonic attacks from a young age may actually be marked with a high anointing from the Lord. The enemy sees this and will attack relentlessly to try to get this person to not realize or fulfill their high calling. The Lord allows it so as to train them for great use later in life according to His good purpose.

At least this is what I believe.
______________________________________________________

Dee, I have thought this about my husband and his family!! Thanks for sharing this info, as well as the rest of your post, I think you have some great insights and it is something to really be aware of.

That is amazing about your dreams, I would say definitely some kind of training and a gift, the way the Lord speaks to you! When I was a kid I can remember having dreams where I felt like the Lord was training or testing me to see how I responded and to build up my courage I believe.

On a different subject, I thought that was so neat about your doll making. Sometime if you get a chance maybe you could post some pictures of dolls you have made! That is also really a special talent! I was thinking about what you said about your personality type and ability to "split hairs" and make these dolls and you are so right about the upside and downside of our personalities in this way. I once had a boss who did a review for me and he showed me a piece of paper that was divided in the middle and on one side he had written strengths and the other side weaknesses. Under each heading he wrote one word - stubborn!! That was it - my whole review. I still laugh about that but it is so true. We all have wonderful things built into us that can be used greatly for good or other! God bless you Dee!