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SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Hi Everyone,

There is a measure of suffering we must be prepared to endure in order to partake in the rapture.

I believe that those who are not prepared to crucify the flesh will be left behind.


Note the Lord's Words,

"O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! "Ought not the Christ to have SUFFERED THESE THINGS and to ENTER INTO HIS GLORY?" (Luke 24:25,26)

Again we read,

"...all things must be FULFILLED which were WRITTEN in the Law...thus it is necessary for Christ to SUFFER and to rise from the dead the THIRD DAY (which is the Day of First fruits) (Luke 24:44,46)

We also must FULFILL all that is written in the Word in order to receive our glorified bodies on the third Day.

Paul writes,

"...he who loves another has FULFILLED THE LAW.

For the commandments."

"You shall not commit adultery, "

"You shall not murder,"

"You shall not steal,"

"You shall not bear false witness,"

"You shall not covet, "

and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely,

"You shall love your neighbour as yourself."

Love does no harm to a neighbour; therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW." (Rom.13:8-10)

Many believers don't seem to understand that the reason why they must use there own lips to speak the Law and the Prophets (that is the Word) is so that the Lord, through the Holy Ghost, can fill them with love for others.

This is why Paul wrote to the Galatians,

"...through love serve one another. For all the Law is FULFILLED in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbour as yourself." (5:13,14)

We love the Lord by receiving His Holy Spirit as we speak His Word. His Spirit will then fill us with love for others.

This love will manifest when opportunities to do good to others present themselves.

These expressions of love won't be forced actions,they will be spontaneous manifestations of the love of God.

The only way to receive this love is to spend time daily using our own lips to confess the Law and the Prophets, otherwise known as the Word or the Bible.

This is why the Lord said,

" 'You shall love the Lord Your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind.'

"This is the first and great commandment.

"And the second is like it:

'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.'

"On these two commandments hang ALL the LAW and the PROPHETS." (Matt.22:37 - 40)

Anyone who is not prepared to deny the godless demands of the flesh will not receive a glorified body.

For the suffering that really costs is when we daily deny the lust that is present in our flesh.

This is why Paul writes,

"...if indeed we SUFFER with Him (now), that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the SUFFERINGS of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (Rom.8:17,18)

In Christ the Glory of the Father was already in Him, it was his suffering, however, that brought it out and produced His Glorified Body.

In the same way the The Glory of Jesus is already in us, it is the suffering of denying the lusts of our flesh daily, that will bring it out and produce our glorified bodies on the Day of First-fruits.

All the things we say and do by the love of God in us is what is called "first-fruits"

This is why I believe the Lord is coming on the Day of First-fruits to give use our glorified bodies.

For we read,

"...we also who have the first-fruits of the (Holy) Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body." (Rom.8:23)

Only those who have first-fruits are going to be raptured. For only these have crucified the flesh and its lust in order to allow the Holy Spirit to produce first-fruits in them.

All those who excuse the flesh or indulge the flesh are doing it at the expense of producing first-fruits.

This is why many lukewarm Christians are going to find themselves in the Great tribulation for the destruction of the flesh, so the Lord can raise them up into heaven after the death of the body.


This is why now before the rapture we must judge our flesh by living in the Spirit.

For Paul said,

"For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judge, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world." (1Cor.11:31,32)

In the Great Tribulation, the lukewarm christian as well as the wicked are going to experience the destruction of the flesh.

The difference is that while the spirits of repentant believers will be saved and raised up into heaven, the spirits of the wicked will be condemned and cast into hell.

What many may not know is that the repentant believers, that die in the great tribulation, won't be receiving glorified bodies until 3017!!!

That is over 1000 years from now!!!

The only ones who will receive glorified bodies in 2017 are those who become martyrs during the great tribulation.

I believe the rapture is going to occur on the Day of First-fruits (16th of Nisan).

This year, it falls on the 2nd of April 2010.

Email: olailori777@yahoo.co.uk

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I LITERALLY WAS THINKING ABOUT FIRST FRUITS BEING OUR RAPTURE DATE AS I STARTED READ THIS.

CONFIRMATION?

WOW

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Many believers don't seem to understand that the reason why they must use there own lips to speak the Law and the Prophets (that is the Word) is so that the Lord, through the Holy Ghost, can fill them with love for others.
_____________________________________________________


I do not understand where this is coming from and it really sounds like a works based teaching to me.

This morning I read a devotional that spoke about entering the Lord's rest and cited Hebrews including the following:

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


The Lord Himself has provided a way for us to enter His rest and that is through the FINISHED work of Jesus at the cross.

I think that the main point that God is trying to get across to us is that He, God, our Father is just that, God and our Father and we are his CHILDREN.

He is taking care of us! He did the work. We need to enter into the rest that He has provided for us by faith! God bless you W777

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

The Feasts of the Lord--Part IV
THE FESTIVAL OF FIRST FRUITS


In the process of revealing His plan of salvation for mankind, God
established His annual Holy Days around the harvest seasons in the
Middle East (Leviticus 23:9-16, Exodus 23:14-16). Just as His people
harvested their crops around these three Festival seasons, God's Holy
Days show us how He is harvesting people for eternal life in His
Kingdom.

The Holy Days have meanings that build upon each other. Together they
progressively reveal how God works with humanity.

The fifteenth of Nisan begins the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is a
high sabbath. It is a seven day feast to the Lord. The day following
the sabbath during Passover is called the Feast of First Fruits
(Leviticus 23:10-14).


The Feast of First Fruits can be found in Leviticus 23:9-14.

vs.9--And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

vs.10--Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be
come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest
thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest
unto the priest:

vs.11--And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be acceppted for
you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

vs.12--And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb
without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.

vs.13--And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine
flour mingled with oil, and offering made by fire unto the Lord for a
sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the
fourth art of an hin.

vs.14--And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears,
until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God:
it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your
dwellings.


UNDERSTANDING THE FESTIVAL CEREMONY

The observance was carried out in this manner, when the standing ripe
harvest of barley and wheat was ready to be reaped. The celebrant would
take one sheaf from the standing harvest and bring it to the priest.
The lone sheaf was called "the sheaf of the first fruits." The priest
was then to take this one sheaf and wave it before the Lord in His
house. This was to be done "the day after the sabbath." Prescribed
offerings were also to be presented along with the sheaf.


THE SHEAF OF FIRST FRUITS IN THE BIBLE

God commanded the people to bring a sheaf of the harvest (Leviticus
23:10). Remember, three times a year God commanded the people to come
to Jerusalem to celebrate the Festivals of Passover, Pentecost , and
Tabernacles. All three of these festivals are agricultural harvest
Festivals. Passover is the barley harvest. Pentecost is the wheat
harvest. Both of these Festivals are first fruits harvests before the
final harvest that was to come at the end of the year during the
Festival of Tabernacles, which is the fruit harvest.

The harvest represents all who would put their faith, trust, and
confidence in the Messiah (Matthew 13:39). So, the sheaf is the first
of the first fruits. Since a sheaf in the Bible is used to typify a
person or persons (Genesis 37:5-11), a sheaf spiritually represents
people who accept the Messiah into their hearts.

The nation of Israel was familiar with the concept of first fruits or
the firstborn. The first fruits were always the choicest, the foremost,
the first, the best, the preeminent of all that was to follow. They
were holy to the Lord. The concept of first fruits or firstborn is a
major theme in the Bible. This can be seen by the following Scriptures:
Exodus 34:26, Leviticus 23:20, Numbers 18:12-15, Deuteronomy 18:1-5,
26:2-4, and Proverbs 3:9.


EVERYTHING ON THE EARTH, BOTH MAN AND BEAST, WAS TO BE PRESENTED BEFORE
THE LORD AS FIRST FRUITS TO HIM

--The firstborn of both man and beast were sanctified (made holy) and
presented to the Lord (Exodus 13:2,22:29).

--The first fruits of all the earth were presented to the Lord at His
altar in praise and thanksgiving (Deuteronomy 26:1-11).


THE THEME OF THE FESTIVAL OF FIRST FRUITS IS RESURRECTION AND SALVATION

There are several important events tht happened on this day in the
Bible.

1. Noah's ark rests on Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:4).

2. Israel crosses the Red Sea (Exodus chapter 14).

3. Israel eats the first fruits of the Promised Land (Joshua 5:10-12).
The manna that God gave from Heaven during the days in the wilderness
ceased the sixteenth day of Nisan after the people ate of the old corn
of the land. The day following was the seventeenth of Nisan, the day
when the children of Israel ate the first fruits of the Promised Land.

4. Haman is defeated (Esther 3:1-6).
In the Book of Esther, Haman plotted to kill all the Jews in Persia and
Media. Haman had ten sons. By this, we can see tht Haman is a tye of
the false Messiah (antichrist). A decree was sent out on the thirteenth
of Nisan that all the Jews would be killed. Upon hearing this news,
Esther proclaims a three-day fast, which would be Nisan 14-16. On the
sixteenth of Nisan, Esther risked her life when she came to King
Ahasuerus. The king asked her, in effect, "Tell me, what do you want?"
Esther replied, "If it seem good unto the king, let the king and Haman
come this day unto the banquet tht I have prepared for him." This was
the sixteenth day of Nisan. At the banquet, the king again asked Esther
what she wanted, and she asked the king to come to another banquet to be
held the next day, the seventeenth of Nisan. On this day, Haman (a type
of the false Messiah or antichrist, as well as of satan) is hanged.

5. The resurrection of Jesus (John 12:24, 1 Corinthians 15:16-20).
The Lord Jesus celebrated the Festival of First Fruits by offering
Himself as the first fruits to all future generations (Matthew
27:52-53).


JESUS IS THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE BARLEY HARVEST

1. Jesus is the firstborn of Mary (Matthew 1:23-25)

2. Jesus is the first-begotten of God the Father (Hebrews 1:6)

3. Jesus is the firstborn of every creature (Colossians 1:15)

4. Jesus is the first-begotten from the dead (Revelation 1:5)

5. Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren (Romans 8:29)

6. Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrected ones (1 Corinthians
15:20,23)

7. Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God (Revelation 3:14)

8. Jesus is the preeminent One (Colossians 1:18)

Jesus is indeed the Most Holy One of God and is sanctified by the
Father. Jesus is the first, the choicest, the preeminent One. He is
both the firstborn of God and the first fruits unto God. Jesus is the
sheaf of the first fruits.


FIRST FRUITS IS PROPHETIC OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

The Festival of the sheaf of the first fruits is prophetic of the
resurrection of Jesus. Jesus prophesied that He would rise three days
and nights after He was crucified upon the cross (Matthew 12:40, Luke
24:46). This was foreshadowed to happen in the Old Testament by type
and shadow (Genesis 22:1-6, Exodus 3:18, 8:27).

Since Jesus was crucified on the day of Passover, the fourteenth of
Nisan, and He arose from the grave three days and nights after He was
crucified, Jesus arose from the grave on the seventeenth of Nisan, the
day of the festival of First Fruits. This day would be the day after
the weekly sabbath during the week of Passover (Mark 16:1-6). In fact,
Jesus is called the first fruits of those who rise from the dead.

-But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of
them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ
shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the
firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. --1
Corinthians 15:20-23


THE SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING OF FIRST FRUITS

A sheaf in the Bible is used to typify a person or persons (Genesis
37:5-11). Christ will return to earth (Zechariah 14:4) during His
second coming as King over all the earth. He also will bring the
sheaves (the believers in Jesus as the Messiah) with Him (Psalm 126,
Mark 4:26-29, Jude 14).

The 144,000 Jewish witnesses who witness of Christ during the
tribulation are first fruits to God during the tribulation (Revelation
14:1-4).


The following are Scriptures in the Bible concerning first fruits.

1. Israel was God's firstborn (Exodus 4:22). But, the first will be
last and the last will be first (Mark 10:31). Therefore, the Gentiles
became the first to receive the Messiah (Isaiah 60:1-3, 62:1-3, Acts
15:14-16). At the end of this present age, the Jews as a corporate
people will accept Jesus as Messiah as well.

2. The Gospel was preached to the Jew first and then to the non-Jews
(Romans 1:16).

3. We are called to seek first the Kingdom of God (Matthew 6:33).

4. Jesus was alive the first day of the week (Mark16:1-6).

5. Jesus was the first to rise from the dead (Acts 26:23).

6. The early believers were a kind of first fruits (James 1:17-18).

7. Those who arose from the dead with Christ during His resurrection
became the first fruits of all those who would rise from the dead
(Matthew 27:52-53, Ephesians 4:8, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

8. Jesus first loved us, and He is to be our first love (1 John 4:9,
Revelation 2:4).

9. Jesus is the first (Alpha) and the last (Omega) (Revelation 1:8, 17,
22:13, Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, 48:12).


Few people understand that God follows a systematic plan, symbolized by
His Holy Days, to save all humanity by offering all people eternal life
in His Kingdom.

In this world we are simply at the beginning of the harvest from the
Kingdom of God.




The Feasts of the Lord--Part V

http://www.bibleprophesy.org/feasts4.htm

Please feel free to email me, Jason, at
group@spintheweb.com
if you have any questions or comments on this article,
or on the subject of the pretribulation rapture,
or if you wish to share any scriptures with me.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

2HH Thanks for this study! Will also be looking at that date. It is so hard to believe that the Jews are going to celebrate an actual Passover this year with lambs sacrificed. This is truly a major sign I would think!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Hi Melissa,

Allow me to show you what I mean using your own quote.

In Hebrews 4:11 we read,

" Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

Let me ask a simple question?

Do you struggle to love others in your life?

If the answer is "Yes"

It means you have not entered into a place of rest yet.

A place were the love of God flows out of you without much effort.

In order to enter this place of rest you have to "be diligent" in confessing the Word until the Love of God flows out like a river.

Then the struggle to reveal the love of Christ to others ceases.

There are many believers who spend little or no time in the Word and struggle to reveal who Jesus is to others.

Suddenly someone comes along and tells them,

"don't worry about it, just plead the blood".

Excuse me!!!

That will get you into heaven eventually.

The rapture?

No chance!!!

That's why we have to be diligent in the Word until we enter that place of rest.

Do remain blessed.

Email: olailori777@yahoo.co.uk

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

W777, I do not struggle to love others at all!! I love everybody. I even love BO!!:)

The reason that I can love everyone soo much is because I understand how God loves us! I first saw this love for us when I read the gospel accounts of Jesus and I saw it first hand with my own eyes how God displayed His love for us through Jesus!

I am able to patiently love everyone because I know that everyone is/are my brothers and sisters (potentially at least) and that we share a common parent God!

I believe that we definitely should stay grounded in the Word and try to live a godly lifestyle and obey the Lord to the tee!! However, we are all fallen and have a bunch of flesh that we are toting around that trips us up a lot! Also the world and the devil are here tripping us up all the time as well.

Anyway, I love people because God loved me first and for no other reason. I have this love imbedded in me in the person of the Holy Spirit 24/7 and do not need to speak it into existance - I could not do this.

That is what I was referring to as works. There is a difference between what we are able to do and what God through His Holy Spirit is doing through us!

We are called to rest in the Lord. To me that says that by faith we are called to trust in the finished work that He has accomplished through Jesus at the cross.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Melissa
W777, I do not struggle to love others at all!! I love everybody. I even love BO!!:)

The reason that I can love everyone soo much is because I understand how God loves us! I first saw this love for us when I read the gospel accounts of Jesus and I saw it first hand with my own eyes how God displayed His love for us through Jesus!

I am able to patiently love everyone because I know that everyone is/are my brothers and sisters (potentially at least) and that we share a common parent God!

I believe that we definitely should stay grounded in the Word and try to live a godly lifestyle and obey the Lord to the tee!! However, we are all fallen and have a bunch of flesh that we are toting around that trips us up a lot! Also the world and the devil are here tripping us up all the time as well.

Anyway, I love people because God loved me first and for no other reason. I have this love imbedded in me in the person of the Holy Spirit 24/7 and do not need to speak it into existance - I could not do this.

That is what I was referring to as works. There is a difference between what we are able to do and what God through His Holy Spirit is doing through us!

We are called to rest in the Lord. To me that says that by faith we are called to trust in the finished work that He has accomplished through Jesus at the cross.

Amen, Melissa! We love because He first loved us, and He pours His love into our hearts by His Spirit.

Entering into His rest is also surrendering ourselves to Jesus, trusting Him to lead us (by His Word & His Spirit), depending on Him to give us the strength to obey His voice.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Amen Charity!! Agree with you! Hope you are all doing well and have a lot of fun with your company when they come!! Love you sis!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Thanks, Melissa. The company arrived yesterday afternoon.
The girls are REALLY enjoying their grandparents!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Charity That is so wonderful!! Bet the grandparents are thrilled to be there too!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Melissa
Anyway, I love people because God loved me first and for no other reason.


I love your heart, Melissa. I wish more were like you.

Website: wyattmuseum.com/

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

TN Dove
Melissa
Anyway, I love people because God loved me first and for no other reason.


I love your heart, Melissa. I wish more were like you.


I love your heart, too, Melissa.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

TN and Charity!! You guys are like me! Your hearts are like gold and it shows in your posting! Love you both!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Just as I do not believe in a partial rapture, I do not believe in partial salvation. I believe God made it easy and the message is simple: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Just as Jesus said to the thief next to Him on the cross: "Today you will be with me in paradise" - tomorrow we will be with Him in the rapture. When He said: "It is finished" He did not say "It is finished, but." I am trying to convince my precious sister-in-law, who is Catholic, of that. If I were to add any condition to the Good Work of Christ on the cross whatsoever, then I would be fearful indeed:

Have I loved enough? Did my love include enough: the president of the U.S., the president of Iran, etc. and so forth and so on.

My Catholic sister says: I believe in Christ as my saviour. . .but we must be a good person (and then proceeds to condone lying). She does not take her "Christ" down from the cross, but leaves Him there--it is not finished. It is never finished.

I say salvation is complete; He needs no help from us.
Therefore, we who are in Christ will surely be raptured. But if one adds to this?

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I really do agree with the concept of crucifying your flesh...and that those who don't will not go in the first fruits rapture. But.....

Part of me wonders though if the "firstfruits" rapture has not already happened???

What?!!! Huh?!!!

I was in what I call a "massive purge" from about the end of July '09 to about the 5th of February. On the 6th of February, I felt an amazing release.

What began as a spiritual, mental and emotional "cleanse" ended with a physical fast. The finality of it all felt like a total crucifiction of my flesh.

It's quite abstract and hard to define, but I feel like now I'm in a season that is described in Luke 10 18 - 20...incidentally where Jesus describes lightning falling from heaven and the words corresponding to BO.

It's like my spiritual authority has been suuuper amped!

Does anybody feel like this?

Could it be that the firstfruits "rapture" or transformation is not necessarily seen, but is hidden?

David

Email: im_davidwhelan@yahoo.com

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Kman
Just as I do not believe in a partial rapture, I do not believe in partial salvation. I believe God made it easy and the message is simple: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Just as Jesus said to the thief next to Him on the cross: "Today you will be with me in paradise" - tomorrow we will be with Him in the rapture. When He said: "It is finished" He did not say "It is finished, but." I am trying to convince my precious sister-in-law, who is Catholic, of that. If I were to add any condition to the Good Work of Christ on the cross whatsoever, then I would be fearful indeed:

Have I loved enough? Did my love include enough: the president of the U.S., the president of Iran, etc. and so forth and so on.

My Catholic sister says: I believe in Christ as my saviour. . .but we must be a good person (and then proceeds to condone lying). She does not take her "Christ" down from the cross, but leaves Him there--it is not finished. It is never finished.

I say salvation is complete; He needs no help from us.
Therefore, we who are in Christ will surely be raptured. But if one adds to this?


Kman I agree with you...why would God make it hard for us? I think He wants it to be easy so that we will all be with Him...we are His childrenand that is His desire....

Also He says I will NEVER leave you are forsake you... it does not come with a condition Never means Never...it does not mean unless or if you do not do everything exactly the way I want it. His love is unconditional.... He came here and lived a sinless life so that we can have eternal life...He did it for us (lived the sinless life)... wow what a gift that I freely recieve..Thank You Jesus.

Also, we may not know why a person is doing what they are doing.... sometimes things they have gone through or things that they have been taught causes them to behave a certian way because they just do not know any better...that is between them and God..and He can see the heart .... I can not see Him not taking anyone because of something they are in bondage to...if anything His heart breaks more for that person and His desire is to set them free....and what a gift and a joy for Him to take everyone in the rapture...well everyone who believes in Him...

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Melissa, love you! because you do have a heart for Jesus, this I know, but we do disagree on this.

You said:

There is a difference between what we are able to do and what God through His Holy Spirit is doing through us!


I would say that there is also a difference between those who are willing vessels to allow the Holy Spirit to work and there are those who are not. It is possible to harden our hearts towards Him, even after we are saved. This is not works, but daily picking up our cross, as has been said before and yielding. This is not works. Words we said twenty years ago will not get us into Heaven if we have turned our backs on Him and gone after other lovers.

Joyful Susan, Jesus said He would never forsake us, but that does not mean that we can't. We are very capable of it.

Wide awake, I am shaken by what you said. Can you describe it further?

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee
Melissa, love you! because you do have a heart for Jesus, this I know, but we do disagree on this.

You said:
There is a difference between what we are able to do and what God through His Holy Spirit is doing through us!


I would say that there is also a difference between those who are willing vessels to allow the Holy Spirit to work and there are those who are not. It is possible to harden our hearts towards Him, even after we are saved. This is not works, but daily picking up our cross, as has been said before and yielding. This is not works. Words we said twenty years ago will not get us into Heaven if we have turned our backs on Him and gone after other lovers.

Joyful Susan, Jesus said He would never forsake us, but that does not mean that we can't. We are very capable of it.

Wide awake, I am shaken by what you said. Can you describe it further?


I agree in one sense. Words we said twenty years ago will not get us into heaven. Words we say with our mouths are not enough. But words believed are. Belief, even a hundred years ago, is enough. I believe in eternal security. I've been trying to convince my son of this for years. He says: well, it has to be really serious. And he's a pastor.

My two cents worth: it's all about Christ, His faithfulness ... I know that's hard to understand ... and not about us.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee,

Well...I'll do my best to describe it...haha.

First of all, my view of the firstfruits "rapture" was never one where a certain group is "better" than another, but was simply perhaps more "ready"...or "awake"? When you look at any "body", it's natural for us to look at the head or the eyes and think they're "more important"...yet without the aorta or the lymph fluid or the brain stem or the colon or the duodenum or white blood cells or red cells, etc. the whole body is dead anyways...thus the head and eyes are too...right? There is no part of the bride or body more important than the other...even if it is seen "more".

Ok then...so because of many descriptions of His coming...we can maybe pull from that there is indeed a firstfruits rapture. Correct? Some agree, some don't. I personally do.

But...read Luke 10:18 - 20 closely. It's as if the timing of satan's "fall" or the discovery therein is also tied to the church being able to do things that they were otherwise not able to...

He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

At any rate, I had been going on a "watch and pray" journey much like many here. No apperaing at Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur..or Feast of Tabernacles...or 11:11 or Dec 10th or Dec 21st or Christmas...or Blue moon...etc. Wow...a LOT of watching / praying...but ALSO a lot of "purging" and crucifying.

Then came January...1:11, and more watching...and waiting...praying and purging.

All the while, I literally prayed for everybody I have ever known...repented of everything I could remember...forgiven all, prayed for homeless...leaders...you name it. Haha.

And in January into February finished it off with physical fasting.

At any rate, I had some interesting moments in prayer on the 5th and 6th...and have since had very supernatural moments...and a huge BLAST of FAITH and HOPE and LOVE.

I'm just wondering if something has not already happened in the Spirit to MANY also...that we're to tap into until the actual trumpet / clouds rapture...thus instead of sitting here waiting for Him to come, people's hearts are actually READY for us to get VERY BOLD to us to go tell them that He IS COMING!!! And the ENEMY is actually totally AWARE of who we are...and thus...I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you..

Does this bear witness with anybody else???

David

Email: im_davidwhelan@yahoo.com

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee what you say makes sense but if someone just spoke words and it was not a true conversion then they were never His to begin with...

But if you have truly given your heart to Jesus and recieved the Holy Spirit then it will be your desire to please God... and even when you have gone after other lovers, as you say, then the Holy Spirit inside you brings conviction that will help you to turn back to where you were before....

I know I am speaking about myself.... hurt from my divorce and what my husband did I backslid.... but through it all Jesus was always with me speaking to me and calling me back.. I did not belong where I was but Jesus knew my heart and knew what caused me to do the things I did...and He was still there speaking to me and He caused circustances to happen that lead me to repentance and healing.... and I am forever thankful that He never let me go.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

WideAwake
Carlee,

Well...I'll do my best to describe it...haha.

First of all, my view of the firstfruits "rapture" was never one where a certain group is "better" than another, but was simply perhaps more "ready"...or "awake"? When you look at any "body", it's natural for us to look at the head or the eyes and think they're "more important"...yet without the aorta or the lymph fluid or the brain stem or the colon or the duodenum or white blood cells or red cells, etc. the whole body is dead anyways...thus the head and eyes are too...right? There is no part of the bride or body more important than the other...even if it is seen "more".

Ok then...so because of many descriptions of His coming...we can maybe pull from that there is indeed a firstfruits rapture. Correct? Some agree, some don't. I personally do.

But...read Luke 10:18 - 20 closely. It's as if the timing of satan's "fall" or the discovery therein is also tied to the church being able to do things that they were otherwise not able to...

He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

At any rate, I had been going on a "watch and pray" journey much like many here. No apperaing at Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur..or Feast of Tabernacles...or 11:11 or Dec 10th or Dec 21st or Christmas...or Blue moon...etc. Wow...a LOT of watching / praying...but ALSO a lot of "purging" and crucifying.

Then came January...1:11, and more watching...and waiting...praying and purging.

All the while, I literally prayed for everybody I have ever known...repented of everything I could remember...forgiven all, prayed for homeless...leaders...you name it. Haha.

And in January into February finished it off with physical fasting.

At any rate, I had some interesting moments in prayer on the 5th and 6th...and have since had very supernatural moments...and a huge BLAST of FAITH and HOPE and LOVE.

I'm just wondering if something has not already happened in the Spirit to MANY also...that we're to tap into until the actual trumpet / clouds rapture...thus instead of sitting here waiting for Him to come, people's hearts are actually READY for us to get VERY BOLD to us to go tell them that He IS COMING!!! And the ENEMY is actually totally AWARE of who we are...and thus...I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you..

Does this bear witness with anybody else???

David


Interesting...I do not understand the first fruits thing...I only know that we give a firsst fruit offering at church ever year LOL...ok..

But... I have been praying that God will help me to be able to share with others about His coming... I think I have been a little bold ...haha but I have been praying for ways to share.....

I guess you could tap into a level of faith that would cause things to happen in a supernatural way... hmmm maybe God is calling some to proclaim with boldness..if so then I would love to be one of them....and I would love to have that annointing...hmmm again :) a friend of mine and I were prayed for together one night and said we have the same annointing... since then we have been asking God what this means.... we are both watching for His return...and the other day I said to her maybe we are both annointed for the end time... hmmmm maybe this is it...we were talking yesterday about being able to share with other and some are listening but some are not and we want to get bolder.....

I think with all the praying and fasting you have been doing you have to be floating :)

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Here is what Jesus wrote to the church of Ephesus:

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


Okay, lets break this down.

1. This is a church of believers
2. He tells them they have left their first love
3. That means they were with Jesus, but left Him
4. He says unless they repent He will remove their candlestick
5. He says they must overcome and return to their first love to eat of the tree of Life (receive their salvation reward)

To the church of the Laodiceans He says:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

This does not sound like they will be making it to Heaven.

He says to all the churches "I know thy works", so how can one say that they are not at all important:

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience...

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)...

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith...

Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.


Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:1 I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,


Notice in that last one He said we (the believer) kept His word, not He kept it for us. With all this admonition don't you think it is possible for us to walk away from His freely given salvation. After all, He allows us to make the choice for salvation in the first place and lets all those people go to Hell. How can we say we are any better or different than them.

He also uses the word "overcome" a lot here to the churches:

Rev 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life...

Rev 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Rev 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


It makes me wonder what will happen to those that don't overcome.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I am stunned. You are gearing up for this last harvest! I haven't felt it yet but am greatly anticipating it!!!!!!!!!!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee thannk you for breaking this down for me...I wil lread it and ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom..if I am missing something I would like to know ..lol...who would not...so thank you for all of this...

I missed my sons baseball game online because I fell asleeP!!! Now he is texting me to pick him up and he is very hungry and I jsut got out of the shower!! ug this is not good.... he said he played a great game too :(...

thank you carlee

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Joyful Susan
Kman
Just as I do not believe in a partial rapture, I do not believe in partial salvation. I believe God made it easy and the message is simple: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Just as Jesus said to the thief next to Him on the cross: "Today you will be with me in paradise" - tomorrow we will be with Him in the rapture. When He said: "It is finished" He did not say "It is finished, but." I am trying to convince my precious sister-in-law, who is Catholic, of that. If I were to add any condition to the Good Work of Christ on the cross whatsoever, then I would be fearful indeed:

Have I loved enough? Did my love include enough: the president of the U.S., the president of Iran, etc. and so forth and so on.

My Catholic sister says: I believe in Christ as my saviour. . .but we must be a good person (and then proceeds to condone lying). She does not take her "Christ" down from the cross, but leaves Him there--it is not finished. It is never finished.

I say salvation is complete; He needs no help from us.
Therefore, we who are in Christ will surely be raptured. But if one adds to this?


Kman I agree with you...why would God make it hard for us? I think He wants it to be easy so that we will all be with Him...we are His childrenand that is His desire....

Also He says I will NEVER leave you are forsake you... it does not come with a condition Never means Never...it does not mean unless or if you do not do everything exactly the way I want it. His love is unconditional.... He came here and lived a sinless life so that we can have eternal life...He did it for us (lived the sinless life)... wow what a gift that I freely recieve..Thank You Jesus.

Also, we may not know why a person is doing what they are doing.... sometimes things they have gone through or things that they have been taught causes them to behave a certian way because they just do not know any better...that is between them and God..and He can see the heart .... I can not see Him not taking anyone because of something they are in bondage to...if anything His heart breaks more for that person and His desire is to set them free....and what a gift and a joy for Him to take everyone in the rapture...well everyone who believes in Him...


I agree and thanks, Joyful Susan.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

By grace through faith--always was, is, and always will be.

We overcome when we put everything in our being into his hands.

Jesus--the God who became a man and paid it all forever.

MAY HE BE PRAISED, FOR HE ALONE IS WORTHY!

Thankfully in Him,

Mike

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee
Here is what Jesus wrote to the church of Ephesus:

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


Okay, lets break this down.

1. This is a church of believers
2. He tells them they have left their first love
3. That means they were with Jesus, but left Him
4. He says unless they repent He will remove their candlestick
5. He says they must overcome and return to their first love to eat of the tree of Life (receive their salvation reward)

To the church of the Laodiceans He says:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

This does not sound like they will be making it to Heaven.

He says to all the churches "I know thy works", so how can one say that they are not at all important:

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience...

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)...

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith...

Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.


Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:1 I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,


Notice in that last one He said we (the believer) kept His word, not He kept it for us. With all this admonition don't you think it is possible for us to walk away from His freely given salvation. After all, He allows us to make the choice for salvation in the first place and lets all those people go to Hell. How can we say we are any better or different than them.

He also uses the word "overcome" a lot here to the churches:

Rev 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life...

Rev 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Rev 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


It makes me wonder what will happen to those that don't overcome.

Carlee, I really appreciate you laying out those verses from Revelation for us. I have gone over and over those first three chapters in Revelation, and I can't get past the obvious realities that:
1. Yes, "works" are important to the Lord, and
2. keeping "the word of His patience" is a prerequisite for being "kept from the hour of trial".

The Bible has some strong admonitions about the necessity of "overcoming". If overcoming took no effort on our part, then why would He bother to tell us (multiple times) to be overcomers?

Just sayin'...

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Mike
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

By grace through faith--always was, is, and always will be.

We overcome when we put everything in our being into his hands.

Jesus--the God who became a man and paid it all forever.

MAY HE BE PRAISED, FOR HE ALONE IS WORTHY!

Thankfully in Him,

Mike


Amen Mike thats the scripture I thought of when I read overcomers...

If we try to do it ourselves then doesnt it void what Jesus did... and takes the glory from Him?

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

That is a great verse, Mike & Susan. Yes, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ is what makes us overcomers. "Remain faithful, even unto death, and I will give to you the crown of life..." (Rev. 2:10)

Amen.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Hey Miss Charity :) I love your golden boots.... hows your company...I have been thinking about you and praying that you will be blessed and it will be a wonderful time for your family.....

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Aw- thanks so much for your prayers, Joyful! I prayed for you today- just that the Lord would bless you in a special way...

It's going pretty good... typing with one hand here (nursing) and gotta get to bed... tired.

Love ya, sis! ~Char

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

ug my post disappeared ...

what did I say??

Thank you for praying for me :) that means so much to me to know someone was....

Here is a smiley for you ...I saved it just for you....I love you Charity.... You are a very special person to everyone .....

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Joyful Susan, yes, if you can receive insight from the Holy Spirit, that is the best!! I feel that the Lord keeps showing me through His word that we can lose our salvation. God Bless you!

Charity, amazing boots, girl! And the verse you quoted says we must REMAIN faithful.

Maybe I will ask the Lord to give me an amazing, Holy Spirit-guided study. I just know in my spirit that we are not always saved.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

"Charity, amazing boots, girl! And the verse you quoted says we must REMAIN faithful."

Carlee- aren't those boots fabulous?

And yes, I completely agree that we must REMAIN faithful. Let's just say that someone who walks away from the faith is NOT walking toward Heaven.

Did you read what I wrote below under your Revelation verses?

-ya! G'night!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Joyful Susan
ug my post disappeared ...

what did I say??

Thank you for praying for me :) that means so much to me to know someone was....

Here is a smiley for you ...I saved it just for you....I love you Charity.... You are a very special person to everyone .....


Thanks so much for the kind words & the smiley, Joyful Susan (though sadly it didn't show up for me)!

I love you! G'night!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Carlee

Maybe I will ask the Lord to give me an amazing, Holy Spirit-guided study. I just know in my spirit that we are not always saved.


Hi Carlee . . This we know, huh, our Lord has no desire to walk away from those who've tasted His Word, yet, we can still walk away from Him.

With that said, who in their right mind claiming salvation would do that?

Billy Graham had a very good friend who claimed he was saved . . years later this friend walked away from the Lord, denounced his salvation, and died in his sins. Sad.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

We must base everything on the WORD .
******Jesus said we would suffer trials and tribulations throughout our Christian lives (from the point that we are saved this would occur normally day by day .)
******* NOWHERE in The Word does it say that the Philadephian Church , the church that does not deny CHRIST' name )must go through some kind of special trials to be found worthy to enter THE RAPTURE .
It never says that .
The Philadelphian Church has existed throughout Christendom for over two thousand years .
All that is required of her is listed by The Lord in REVELATION CHAPTER THREE .
These teachings that continue to promote "guilt" in the true church are false !!
The teachings that say we must ask ourselves why we want to go with Christ when He comes and the teachings that require special "worthiness tests " are all false !
The WORD says the LORD is coming for THOSE WHO LOVE HIS APPEARING !
That closes this case ...if you are one of the people who loves His Appearing you are going in The Rapture because The Word says so .
I believe with all of my heart that satan's last ploy right before The Rapture is to make people feel quilty for desiring to go with Christ in The Rapture .
Satan cannot keep the Church from The Rapture, so he is trying with all his underhanded methods to make the church "wonder" if she is worthy to go or what her real reasons for going are ...are those valid reasons !?! The WORD never addresses this made-up problem at all ....and that is what it is MADE-UP .
Pretense ! FALSEHOOD !
Give it up !!!!
Christ paid for our sins ...He has given us the Rapture as part of our inheritance in SALVATION , the last portion we inherit !!!!
NO HARD QUESTIONS MUST BE ASK !
WE DON'T HAVE TO WONDER IF WE ARE GOING !
WE DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING !
JESUS SAVES ...that says it all !
....ughhhhhhhh...I am so tired of this new rapture gospel being preached among the already saved ....
tiresome to the enth degree ..................
AND WRONG because it is not biblical .

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Bonnie,

At long last, somebody tells it like it is.

Uplifting!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I haven't gotten to read this thread yet as my KIDS ARE DRIVING ME BATTY!!!! but...

Just wanted to say I love Melissa's heart too :0). And I know she and I don't agree on who goes in the first rapture...but I know she has a heart after the Lord :0).

I have definitely been in a purging mode, David. I also went on a fast a couple of weekends ago. I haven't felt the release though.....if anything the Lord has been distant to me as far as revelation in the supernatural. He is, however, guiding me into knowledge of how to crucify my flesh more. I have SO far to go...but when I think of how short a time I have been closely walking with Him, He has done an amazing work in me....still so much left undone and I have so many obedience and control issues, but slowly I am giving them over to Him.

I have felt since early January that the firstfruits rapture will occur on firstfruits, however, I believe those raptured (at least a portion) will return on Ascension Day with the Lord returning in 'like manner' in His Bride. Then the latter rain anointing will fall on Pentecost. I think Passover will be significant too.

I'm not quite sure how to get to where the Lord wants me to get to, but I do know to rest in Him on this. He has really been getting me on striving and I have tried to just release it all to Him. If I am not ready in time for the rapture, then it is part of His divine plan I need to rest in it. This world doesn't matter and whatever the Lord has planned for me is designed to give me the best eternal life possible with Him as long as I submit.

I don't believe those who are firstfruits are any better than those left behind....just as you said..they have been called sooner to prepare and make themselves ready first. I in my heart of hearts KNOW that the Lord plans on using some of them to help bring in the harvest of those left behind.....and this makes me very, very happy. What a beautiful plan...Christ IN His Bride returning to minister to His weak and sick Body....that happens to be asleep and unprepared for the crucifixion that is necessary. NO, He will never leave us or forsake us...and this ties in beautifully with His overall plan.

I did have an awful dream about a week ago. The only part I remember was being at the foot of the cross. Jesus was nailed to it and I was weeping...literally wailing in grief. But the strange part was that His feet weren't nailed to the cross, but were flailing around. I think the meaning behind this is that not all of the Body is being obedient and submission in crucifying the flesh. Only His upper Body was actually nailed to the cross....the Bride comes from the rib and babies are born head first so this indicates the part of the Body that will be 'born' into sonship first...Jesus as the head, followed by the top half of the Body (including the Bride)...but the Laodicean part of the Body (the last part..or last of the seven churches in Revelation) is not dying to self in order to be born into sonship yet. The flailing legs indicate the fight that this part of the Christian body has with giving up their idols. . He who loses His life will gain it, but right now the Laodicean church is trying to keep a hold of their idols and are thereby losing their lives.

Anyway...I just know I was in agony and felt like I was wailing in my sleep. I've had other dreams like this that the Lord has stricken from my memory where I thought I was even screaming physically while sleeping. Hard to describe, but it was very awful.

I grieve for those that are to be left behind whether believers or unbelievers. I feel I have been told to pray for mercy for them and that is what I have been doing.

I'll try to come back and read the thread when the kids go to bed...I can't concentrate to really understand the thread ....

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I don't believe those who are firstfruits are any better than those left behind....just as you said..they have been called sooner to prepare and make themselves ready first. I in my heart of hearts KNOW that the Lord plans on using some of them to help bring in the harvest of those left behind.....and this makes me very, very happy. What a beautiful plan...Christ IN His Bride returning to minister to His weak and sick Body....that happens to be asleep and unprepared for the crucifixion that is necessary. NO, He will never leave us or forsake us...and this ties in beautifully with His overall plan.

Amen, Dee! Jake and I have been asking the Lord for this wonderful honor-- that He would prepare us to be included in the sons who will be revealed; that we would be chosen to serve Him in our glorified bodies on earth, to help bring in the harvest, all to His Glory!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Charity, I did read those words and the Holy Spirit is showing you the same thing.

Donna, too sad for words, and I do believe it is possible to walk away.

Bonnie, it says in Revelation that the Philidelphian Church will not have to go through the "hour of temptation", but they are one of seven churches--that is a seventh of the believers. It also says about them that they have kept Jesus word and not denied His name. And the condition that is stated as to why they are kept from the hour of temptation is that they "have kept the word of [His] patience" (Rev. 3:10) The word does not say that they are kept from the hour of temptation because they are saved and they are looking for His coming.

And what about the church of Sardis. It says in Rev 3:4 "thou hast a few names in Sardis which have not defiled their garments, and they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy" Notice there are a few, not all. The very next verse warns that "he that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life"

To the church in Smyrna, He tells them they will go through tribulation, persecution and death in verse 2:10, but says immediately that if they remain faithful to the end, He will give them the Crown of Life.

Every Church represents one of seven spiritual states of believers. And everyone is told to overcome or they may have their candlestick removed (2:5), or Jesus will come to them as a thief (3:3), or He will fight them with the sword of His mouth (2:16), or they will be cast into great tribulation because they committed adultery with Jezebel (2:22).



We are told to keep His commandments:

2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


Not all the Church has or will keep His commandments, and they will suffer and perhaps Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you". That is a sobering thought to me, but we can have assurance in our spirit by the witness of the Holy Spirit that we have salvation and we are in Christ. If we do not have that witness and all we feel is condemnation, then we must repent before our Savior and get right with Jesus. (There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus)

Bless you Bonnie as we continue to wrestle with this!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Dee,

I was talking to our Father about you

Wanna know what He said?

(ooooh man...I'm kind of going out on a limb here...lol)

Tell Dee this:

I LOVE YOU! And I wish you knew just how much!!!

If you allow my COUNSELOR to counsel and heal you, He will...and when he does, you will have eyes to see exactly how much I love you...and ears to hear my voice inside you.

Go back to when you were a child...write down every memory that isn't good...pray in the Spirit and ask Me to show you things you have even forgotten.

Forgive every trespass against you. Confess to your brother and sister any sins you might have forgotten. You will identify curses that you can unwind.

Write it all down. Release it all in prayer...and then burn it.

My love for you is unconditional..but your ability to receive my love is conditional...your soul is filtering out My fullness...

Continue to knock...seek...ask. And the Counselor shall bring all of the dross to the surface for removal so that you will be fully refined!

Dee...I love you...continue to press close to me and the old Dee shall pass away more and more.
-----------------------------

There ya go hun! Hope that gives you goosebumps...it gave me pleasure delivering the message

xoxoxo

David

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

David, she's gonna love it! ha ha ha! Wonderful word to Dee from our loving Lord.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

WideAwake
Dee,

I was talking to our Father about you

Wanna know what He said?

(ooooh man...I'm kind of going out on a limb here...lol)

Tell Dee this:

I LOVE YOU! And I wish you knew just how much!!!

If you allow my COUNSELOR to counsel and heal you, He will...and when he does, you will have eyes to see exactly how much I love you...and ears to hear my voice inside you.

Go back to when you were a child...write down every memory that isn't good...pray in the Spirit and ask Me to show you things you have even forgotten.

Forgive every trespass against you. Confess to your brother and sister any sins you might have forgotten. You will identify curses that you can unwind.

Write it all down. Release it all in prayer...and then burn it.

My love for you is unconditional..but your ability to receive my love is conditional...your soul is filtering out My fullness...

Continue to knock...seek...ask. And the Counselor shall bring all of the dross to the surface for removal so that you will be fully refined!

Dee...I love you...continue to press close to me and the old Dee shall pass away more and more.
-----------------------------

There ya go hun! Hope that gives you goosebumps...it gave me pleasure delivering the message

xoxoxo

David


Wow, David. I am printing this out to pray over it. There is something that holds me back from the Lord...I have come a long way, but I DO have issues still...BIG issues...I hate being controlled as I had a very controlling father as far as being strict and my mother was very judgmental...so it was two polar opposites with me caught in the middle. I was always trying to please my mother and never feeling like I did, but was under the direct thumb of my father. I know the Lord needs me to submit and HE is trustworthy..but it is like a stronghold I have trouble pressing through. I also believe that I inherited a deep sense of worry and guilt. I know depression goes way back in my family line including suicide...so I always wonder about that...the kind of family I had wouldn't really tell family secrets so I suspect there is something hidden I don't know about. I just found out in the last few months that there are freemasons (including high ranking and shriners) on both sides of my family. I am in my 40s and this is the first I have heard of it and it only came out because a program on freemasons came on on the history channel with both my parents in the room.


What REALLY gave me chills, David, in what you wrote is the part about hearing Him. I have been questioning Him and questioning Him about this. I keep telling Him...'hey I'll obey, but I am not sure I hear you clearly...and it is really clouded a lot of times.' I also have gotten kind of down because I want to press through and be so close to Him, but I seem caught..as if in a funk...and I feel like I am not sure which direction to go in. I also question His love because of my inadequacies...in hearing Him, and obeying Him...and of course in submission....OH..and guilt..LOL..as I know I am not supposed to have the spirit of fear and guilt and yet I revert. Goodnight I am a mess..LOL.

What you wrote has blessed me SO much....thank you...THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I know the Lord hasn't taken me this far not to help me work this through. It is obvious I don't 'rest' in Him..or have adequate peace...because He is showing me in dreams with mismatching shoes, shoes with holes in the toes and a mattress in the back f a trunk with the roof about to cave in on top of the mattress...all symbols indicating rest and peace...and my lack of it...LOLOL.

This makes me so happy reading this.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Sweetheart...my soul rejoices. He LOVES you...do not fret. His burden is light. Enter into His rest...His peace.

Smile :) Laugh :) You are not alone!

Lighten your load...and enjoy His journey for you.

Amen!

Goodnight :)

David

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

The DEAD IN CHRIST are the precedent before us ....

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Will the entire body of the True Church "ever" realize that it can go in the Rapture without guilt and worry ? Because Christ secured you at salvation and then you abide in HIM daily (naming your sins before the Father and being cleansed from all unrighteousness in CHRIST as a result ). WHEN will the entire Church ever accept what CHRIST has done for us at the Cross , and be done with this "always wondering if I am going with HIM " concept ????? It is pure misery to live in that mode !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Worry is a sin , says the Book of Psalms .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REST IN CHRIST WHO SAVED YOU ...once and for all . IT IS FINISHED said the Lord , but some believers will not accept this gift of God . They want to DO SOMETHING THEMSELVES TO MAKE THEMSELVES WORTHY ! .......it will never be ....you will never be worthy because of anything you can do , you can't suffer ENOUGH to make yourself worthy . If you want to do this , you are wanting self-glory which is an act of pride ....SORRY that is rough and harsh , but it is true !
******He just ask that you obey His Voice daily .....not some great suffering which He Himself has already done FOR YOU !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christ said to SARDIS CHURCH , you need to watch or I will come upon you as a thief (catch them not watching !) .
KEEP THE WORD OF MY PATIENCE !
NOT DENY MY NAME ! KEEP THE FAITH ! ABIDE IN ME ! HOW many ways does the Lord have to say it to get the idea over to usward ? Whatever He said there , He promised they would NOT have to go thru the Hour of Trial coming upon the whole earth to TRY men . Because the Philadelphians did not reject Christ ....saved men and they did not deny His Name and they kept the word of His Patience (kept the faith ) He promises them an OPEN DOOR in Heaven . How will we ever ENJOY with JOY our salvation and the Rapture at last with all this analyzing constantly ? ......................for some it will never be JOY ; it will forever be sad misery , joyless wondering , constant questioning . SADEST EXPERIENCE A SAVED PERSON CAN EVER HAVE , One day you will get tired of feeling so condemned ...when scripture tells you in ROMANS 8 ...there is therefore now no condemnation to those in CHRIST JESUS !!!
***** I DOUBT THESE ONES THAT DO THIS REALLY BELIEVE THEMSELVES TO BE SAVED AND PART OF HIS KINGDOM ........The Holy Spirit confirms to us our salvation and our departure with Christ ! He confirms all things of The Kingdom to usward !!!!
We are His ! If we are His then we will think like we are His !
If we are His we will have confidence that we are saved in HIS GRACE once and for all !
The theory that the church must suffer right before the Rapture in order to PAY for our ticket in to the OPEN DOOR is false , forever false .
Let me ask you this ?
Do you believe The DEAD IN CHRIST MUST RETURN and come out of their graves and suffer with the Church who is alive and remains to pay "their" way into The Rapture ! if not why not ...the church is required the same of each member
and if the Dead in Christ do not have to come back from the graves and SUFFER IN A SPECIAL HOUR OF SUFFERING WITH THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN ....then we NO NOT EITHER !!!!!
I am exhausted with this falsehood and I am through with it ..............bonnie , just glad in my heart to be saved in HIM ...I rest in that Beloved !

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Sister Bon,

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Website: savvyinternetladies.com/blog

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Bonnie you are always a breath of fresh air. This part of what you said really speaks loud and clear:

you will never be worthy because of anything you can do , you can't suffer ENOUGH to make yourself worthy . If you want to do this , you are wanting self-glory which is an act of pride ....SORRY that is rough and harsh , but it is true !


To try to add something to what Jesus did for our salvation and His final remark - "It is FINISHED", seems to negate the great sacrifice and price paid on our behalf. It is an insult to the great grace of God.

Cheryl Ann posted a well-written piece called "In The Days of Noah". It witnesses with what you said Bonnie.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I'll admit I struggle with this, Sue. But I don't think it is as simple as everyone says...Yes, the work was finished and YES we are not to STRIVE in our own STRENGTH because we will NEVER be worthy....never, ever. HOWEVER, that being said, we are to submit and allow Christ to do the work in US....then we enter into SABBATH...rest from OUR works.....but not HIS works...if that makes sense. We basically submit completely resting in His Sacrifice and from Our work and now totally follow Him picking up our cross and following Him only doing and saying what the Father tells us to...like Christ.


I am really struggling with this right now. I don't quite know how to get to his SABBATH, being totally trusting and submissive to His will for me. This is the objective...to have no will of my own, but only the Lord's will.

So we can't just hang back and NOT submit to the Lord's will, as this does not grow our faith in Him and it is through our faith that we are justified. It isn't about sin as we will all sin. It is about obedience and submission. Even doing 'good works' in our own strength is disobedience if we aren't told to do it by the Father.

I seriously am having such a hard time getting to this place of rest and peace, but then I have submission and control issues and a VERY strong self will. I intellectually know that just resting on Jesus' work on the cross is right, but there is more to it than this.....He paid the price for my sins both past, present and future and I accept this...but to grow my faith I need to submit completely....so it is a matter of accepting His sacrifice and then submitting for the Father to sculpt me into Christ's image. But how to do this without striving? I don't want to insult Jesus....oh my goodness...that makes me want to cry. I accept His sacrifice as final and finished, but I can't rest on my laurels either.

I am not sure how to reconcile these two things...I know both to be true, but not quite sure how to submit and not strive. If I just accept Christ's sacrifice then I will rest on my laurels and with great abandon, sin...how can this be right? But if I try to submit, I end up striving which adds to the work of the Cross which is wrong.....see...it is a catch 22 and I don't know how to move past it.

It is like I am missing a tiny piece of the puzzle that will make everything click for me, but I am not quite mature enough for it yet (or else He would have given it to me surely).

Anyway..maybe someone here has the 'key' for which I seek. I am all ears :0).

I think much of this goes back to me not feeling worthy...which LOLOLOL...I'm not..so of course, how can I feel worthy when I am not?? I seriously don't know how to get past this.


I cried out the Lord all last night, David. Asking for clarity on this, trying to cast out demons of unbelief and asking for forgiveness for past wrongs trying to breakthrough and press on. I know it will happen, but right now I am sitting on a desert island waiting for the Lord's ship to see my SOS I have scratched out in the sand...LOL....sigh.

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

I think much of this goes back to me not feeling worthy...which LOLOLOL...I'm not..so of course, how can I feel worthy when I am not?? I seriously don't know how to get past this.
________________________________________________


Dee this is the truth!! None of us are worthy compared to God and that is the key. He is God and we are not. That does not mean we are not wonderful and His children, but we are miles behind him in every way. He says that His ways are so much above ours. We don't have to try to measure up to God because we never could. He is God and we are not.

But the good news is He made us and He loves us and is our Father!!!!

So just be happy that you have a Father that is super awesome and out of this world so to speak that we can never measure up to!!

We can just rest in the fact that He loves us and is coming for us real soon!! Love you Dee!

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Dee Melissa is right...when you accepted what Jesus did for you on the cross you entered into His rest.... He did it for you so you would not have to ..well we could never do it anyway...

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

One of the most powerful heart to Heart affirmation/command from Jesus that overwhelms me is when He reminds me to NOT WORRY.

It is pleasing to our Creator and Loving God when we embrace rest in Jesus, and count His Strength that brings peace. Jesus even saying that worry is a sin. That seems to get my attention.

That simple declaration from our Lord Himself says when I doubt or worry, Jesus considers it sin, which hinders faith. Wow, to me that's striking a chord of love and instruction, a chord so strong, that when I feel the enemy's tactics accusing me that I'm not good enough, I remember Jesus saying, that brings worry and doubt, and not from the Lord .

Amazingly the Spirit of Jesus Christ says to imitate Him, and we know He is full of peace. It's hard to trust all the time our Lord's admonition during times of trials. Yet He commands it.

Thankfully we can take hold of this command coming from the highest Authority there is, from the almighty God of the universe, commanding us to, and from this day forward and forever more, cease from all worry.

We have a right in Jesus to take this Truth, cling to it, hang on to this rich and powerful blessing daily.

I say let God's admonition to us not to worry impact us.

God delights when we put faith in front of worry .

To know we fully existed in God's mind before we were born on earth, as He planned for us and purposed us before time is hugely comforting, isn't it.

our Lord planned every single one of our days. All our tomorrows He knows, How precious we are to Him, and immeasurably valuable we are to Him! Christ our Lord has surely demonstrated His Love!!! .

Re: SUFFERING MUST PRECEDE THE FIRSTFRUIT RAPTURE

Amen to all you have said "Do Not Worry !" Yes !
we are overcoming as we abide in HIM !
we abide in Him , He abides in us !
IN CHRIST we are secure !!
waiting for Him today with you , bonbell

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