Hunt, Dave
September 30, 1997

Knowing that we are in the last of the last days, with an imminent Rapture a very real hope, our thoughts often (and indeed should) turn to the signs which Christ said would herald the nearness of His return. The signs which are most widely cited include "wars and rumours of wars ...[when] nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom...and ...famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes...these are the beginning of sorrows" (Mat 24:6-8).

Unquestionably, these specific "sorrows" have been both prominent and accelerating since Israel again became a nation in 1948. Since that time, the intensity and frequency of these signs have increased like the birth pangs of a woman approaching her time of delivery, exactly as Christ foretold. However, the first sign Christ gave has been largely overlooked and His solemn warning neglected:

And Jesus answered and said...Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many....(Mat 24:4, 5)

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many....(v 11)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (v 24) [Emphasis added.]

Concern for this prophesied deception has marked this ministry. Let us take a closer look at the religious deception Christ foretold. He issued a warning: "take heed [beware] that no man deceive you." Its seriousness is emphasized by being thrice stated. Its nature is specified: false Christs, false prophets, and false signs and wonders. His repetition four times of the word "many" indicates a worldwide deception of multitudes.

Paul issued a similar warning: "Let no man deceive you by any means...." He explains that the spiritual deception to which Christ referred will infect the professing church. That is evident from his words "falling away," or apostasy:

...for that day [of the Lord] shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin [Antichrist] be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thes 2:3).

While a true Christian cannot fall away, a false Christian can. Fall away from what? From the faith in Christ which he or she has outwardly professed without inward reality. Those few apostates who announce themselves as atheists or convert to Buddhism or Hinduism are not the concern of Christ and Paul. They are warning of a turning from the truth within the professing church. Other scriptures confirm this, as we shall see.

Paul warns us not to be deceived into thinking that the apostasy won't come. It must. Such a warning can only mean that in the last days many will reject the biblical teaching that apostasy is inevitable. The false prophets to whom Christ refers will use their signs and wonders to support their false teaching that revival, not apostasy, is underway. Paul therefore warns not to be deceived with talk about revival: the apostasy must come or Christ will not return!

That fact is clarified by other scriptures. False signs and wonders will be an integral part of the apostasy. The departure from the truth will be spearheaded by apparent miracle workers, and the delusion will be made possible by a prevailing emphasis upon experience over doctrine: "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine" (2 Tim 4:3). Christ declares,

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Mat 7:22-23).

These apostates of whom Christ speaks do not lose their salvation; they were never saved ("I never knew you"). Yet they are high-profile Christian leaders apparently performing signs and wonders in the name of Christ. Tragically, they seem to think that their ability to prophesy and to perform wonders proves that they belong to Him. The signs and wonders are so impressive that doctrine no longer matters—exactly what we see today!

Surely these of whom Christ speaks in Matthew 7 must be the same "false Christs and false prophets" to whom He refers in Matthew 24. Moreover, the signs and wonders they are able to perform are apparently so impressive that without discernment by the Holy Spirit even the very elect would be deceived by them. Obviously, something more than mere trickery is involved. These miracle workers are backed by the power of Satan, whom they unwittingly serve in the name of the Lord.

Clearly, the Bible predicts a last-days signs and wonders movement—but it will be of Satan, thus a delusion that will deceive many. After a solemn warning that in the last days "perilous times [not revival!] shall come," Paul makes this remarkable statement:

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these [apostates] also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith (2 Tim 3:8).

Jannes and Jambres were the magicians in Pharaoh's court who, through the power of Satan, duplicated (up to a point) the miracles God did through Moses and Aaron. Paul thus declares that the last-days opposition to the truth will not come so much from outside the church but from those within who are reprobate concerning the faith, depraved men who corrupt the truth. And they do so by performing apparent miracles in Christ's name but which (when more than mere trickery) are actually of Satan. In that way, they deceive and lead many astray—not out of the church, but into false doctrine and thus a false hope within the church. Satan has no more effective tactic to **** souls!

Consider the example we gave two years ago of Benny Hinn on TBN (with Paul and Jan Crouch giving full support) telling with much merriment of a man's wig flying off when he fell "under the power" after Hinn touched his forehead. The man pulled the wig back on, a bit askew, got up and Hinn touched him again just to see him fall and the wig fly off. This occurred five times, boasted Hinn with a laugh. Was this God's power on display, the Holy Spirit at work? Surely not! Then what was it—this power that Hinn claims to pick up at the graves of Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee Semple McPherson?

Such questions involving the whole gamut of today's revival scene, from Toronto to Pensacola, must be seriously faced! Videos of the services show people crawling on the floor, howling like wolves, barking like dogs, roaring like lions, going through bodily contortions impossible without the aid of some spiritual power, unable to speak or even remember their names when they try to give a testimony—and worse. Many of those being baptized at Pensacola seem to lose consciousness or shake so violently that they must be carried out of the baptismal tank or they would drown. Others flail about so wildly as to require several men to handle them. Such manifestations were also found in past "revivals" among the Shakers, the Mormons and many other cults. That such things could now be accepted widely as evidence of the Holy Spirit can only testify to the depths of the delusion!

Jude exhorts us to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). Contend against whom? Surely not primarily against godless enemies outside the church. The warning concerns those within: "For there are certain men crept in unawares" (v 4). Crept in can only mean inside the church.

Paul confirms Jude in addressing the Ephesian elders: "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30). The spiritual deception of which Christ warned would be rampant within the church.

In further confirmation, Christ warned His disciples that "the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service" (Jn 16:2)—a most remarkable prophecy. He can't be referring to the slaughter of Christians by the Caesars or by Mao or Stalin or Hitler, for they did not believe they were thereby serving God. Yes, when the Jews killed the early Christians they thought they were serving God; so did the Roman Catholics when they slaughtered the true Christians before and after the Reformation; and so it was when Muslims killed Christians. But none of this was the complete fulfillment of Christ's prophecy.

"Whosoever" is the key. Neither the Pharisees, the popes nor the Muslims were alone in killing Christians. Others pursued them to the death at the same time. But Christ is saying that a time is coming when whosoever (in other words, everyone) who kills Christians will think he is serving God thereby. That can only mean that a world religion to which everyone must belong is coming, a religion that will seek to exterminate true Christians in the name of God. John saw the same scene in the future:

And it was given unto him [Antichrist] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them....

And I beheld another beast...he exerciseth all the power of the first beast...and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast....

And he had power to...cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed (Rev 13:7-15).

To summarize, the scriptural warnings foretell the very delusion we find in our day: 1) a false signs and wonders movement led by many false prophets; 2) many being deceived through these seeming miracles; 3)the rejection of the biblical teaching concerning apostasy and the insistence that we are in the midst of, or at least building up to, the "greatest revival in the history of the church." Such is the prevailing teaching today among charismatics and increasingly among evangelicals. The promise of revival will be part of the last-days deception, Paul warns, so beware. Instead, in the days preceding the Rapture there will be a great apostasy, a falling away from the faith. Don't be part of it!

That we must earnestly contend for the faith against those who have crept into the church implies that the battle is not so much one of faith against unbelief, but rather of true faith against false faith. And that, too, is precisely what we see today. Articles in leading medical journals cite studies showing that those who have any "religious faith" are more likely to recover from illness. Christianity Today recently ran a major article naively promoting these studies as though they were supportive of the truth.1 Instead, God has been reduced to a placebo that can come in any shape, size or color.

Multitudes of Christians imagine that faith is believing that what they are praying for will happen and that if they truly believe, they will have whatever they ask. Obviously, if things happen because one believes they will, then one does not need God. This is mind power, not the "faith in God" which Christ taught (Mk 11:22). It is faith in faith, which Kenneth Hagin and his followers such as Copeland and Price teach, calling it "the law of faith," which even non-Christians can use to get alleged miracles.2

The great tragedy is that evangelical leaders who ought to expose error commend false prophets instead. A prime example was Norman Vincent Peale. In 1984, on the Phil Donahue program, Peale said, "It's not necessary to be born again. You have your way to God; I have mine. I found eternal peace in a Shinto shrine ...I've been to Shinto shrines, and God is everywhere." Shocked, Phil Donahue responded, "But you're a Christian minister; you're supposed to tell me that Christ is the way and the truth and the life, aren't you?" Peale replied, "Christ is one of the ways. God is everywhere."3 Yet Peale, whose many heresies and occult practices were flaunted before the world and church, has been praised by evangelical leaders, from Billy Graham on down, and his books and magazines are read by millions of evangelical Christians!

The topic on everyone's lips and mind today is revival. Christian TV and radio and best selling books persuasively argue that we are in the midst of the greatest revival of Christianity in the history of the world. Enthusiasts point to the signs and wonders occurring in such places as the former Toronto Vineyard, the Brownsville Assembly of God in Pensacola, Florida, Benny Hinn's church in Orlando, Florida, his huge televised crusades, etc.

It comes as a shock to many to learn that the word "revival" does not appear even once in the entire King James Bible. The hope of revival which excites so many today is not even a biblical concept. Ask yourself a few questions: Is Christ not indwelling us? Is He not in our midst each time we meet? Are we not to be filled with the Holy Spirit at all times? Is not the Word of God sufficient? Why, then, run after signs and wonders as though unusual manifestations prove that God is at work, while neglecting what God has already given us? We will return to this topic in the future.

In the meantime, undertake a study to see what the Bible says. Check every source (including TBC) against Scripture! Be a Berean. TBC

Endnotes

1 Christianity Today (Jan. 6, 1997), 20-30.

2 Kenneth E. Hagin, Having Faith in Your Faith (Rhema, 1980), 3-4.

3 Christian News (May 12, 1997), 11.

Thanks for the posting Kman,
Im leaving for a bit so I havent got thru it all but I will.

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

You speak truth, so for them. There's still time for them to change. I believe God is beginning to shake the very foundation of many of these ministries, & in his mercy will give them one last chance.

Our can make the difference.

Thank you for your kindness and your gentle spirit.
It's not easy being a dissenting voice in a sea of
tolerance and "understanding" and defense of the indefensible? (Note the question mark.)

Indeed, anyone who is alive and breathing has hope and is in need of our prayer(s).

So TN, I have appreciated you immensely; you may have forgotten but you were there for me in the past--you, and one or two others.

We are not called to play an endless game of softball, contrary to the general consensus;
to consume Christian koolaid rather than the wine
of Christ's precious Blood (symbolically, of course). That's why I'm here.
And it's our precious gospel that is at stake.

If anyone says: "Look! I am God." Or, "here, I am the Messiah," or--"we are little messiahs"--if his name is not Jesus or not a member of God's Holy Trinity--if one should be so bold and arrogant to say this--then they are not one of us. I think it is biblical to say "let them be accursed." But, by all means, pray, pray, pray for them-and pray some more.

I've read your post now a couple times and I do agree with you for most of it. The Rivival Joel talks about seems to mean at the end of the Tribulation period, not before....
JOEL 2:28
And AFTERWARDS, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

30 I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke.

31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

I have to STOP short of agreeing with you on the teaching of Hagin and Copelands tho.
The teaching of faith IN GOD without waivering has saved the lives of my family. It was the teachings of faith that taught me how to believe. My husband was just healed of kidney disease BY FAITH. My son whom the enemy tried to take THREE TIMES (and hes only 12) was saved BY FAITH.

Believe me, I could write a book on the miracles, signs and wonders God has shown in my life. From the time I was a child till now. I BELIEVE in the message of Faith in GOD, it has proven true to me always.

In my finances as well. In tithing and offerings, it is the ONLY place in the word where GOd says to test him. And He always come thru.

Having said that Is there too much emphasis on money?
ABSOLUTELY.
But being blessed is everywhere in the word, so I know God wants us to be blessed, But that should NEVER be our focus. I went thru that a few years ago and God graciouly brought me back to Him, my first LOVE.

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

"Multitudes of Christians imagine that faith is believing that what they are praying for will happen and that if they truly believe, they will have whatever they ask. Obviously, if things happen because one believes they will, then one does not need God. This is mind power, not the "faith in God" which Christ taught (Mk 11:22). It is faith in faith, which Kenneth Hagin and his followers such as Copeland and Price teach, calling it "the law of faith," which even non-Christians can use to get alleged miracles."

God bless you, TeaRose, and thank you for taking time to read the long article. Please note the above a little closer: "the 'faith in God' which Christ taught." It is the object of faith that they are saying is all important: FAITH IN GOD. That, I'm sure,
is what brought blessing to you and your family, not faith in faith itself which they call "the law of faith"--just a powerless mechanism--which a non-believer might use or even a witch.

I have also witnessed and been blessed by miracles through the power of prayer (and there is nothing wrong with touch [the laying on of hands, if you so choose, but not necessary]). For instance, the doctors just couldn't figure out why my brother's brain tumor just disappeared (about 45 years ago at Stanford) and others.

Love, Bob

Yes Kman your right it IS faith in GOD!

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

It seems the only preachers that are trashed regularly are the ones who acknowledge and honor the third person of the Godhead, Holy Spirit. Dave Hunt and others like him who do not acknowledge the power of the Holy Spirit and the way He operates must surely grieve the Father and Lord Jesus. Some of the things I have seen said about Benny Hinn, Kenneth & Gloria Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth E. Hagin, Oral Roberts and many other Holy Spirit filled ministers are shameful lies and distortions of the worst sort.

When a warning/word of caution was posted by me about a truly false "Christian" movement - the Emergent Church- that was considered stone throwing. These true ministers of God can be impugned over and over by some of you on this forum and you think that is just A-okay. It makes me a little queasy to read this junk.

I don't blame Karen for leaving and am sorely tempted to follow suit. I would really not like to also step away from what was once a lovely place to visit. The only thing that keeps me here is that there are so many who are very dear, who truly LOVE Jesus and are real seekers of His truth. Maybe this huge stink cloud of gossip, lies and slander will get blown off this site. I certainly hope so.

Yes Texas Sue, I truly wish people would listen to what these guys preach before they make judgements. People get so hung up on money, makes no sense. Money doesnt hold me so I have no problem giving. I think thats the big issue people take with the Copelands and others.....
What they have taught me was the difference between life and death in my life.

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

Frankly TeaRose, these are the only ones from which I have seen any fruit being produced. I think of Reinhard Bohnke, also Spirit-filled and from the Word of Faith strain, who has had tremendous salvations in his meetings in Africa. Not just 10 here or 20 there but millions. Thousands upon thousands of people rescued from hell because of the freedom that Holy Spirit has in these meetings through Reinhard Bohnke. I cannot think of anyone more dear or more devoted to Jesus and evidencing the power of Jesus' Spirit than Papa Kenneth E. Hagin, now graduated to Glory. Yet even though he is gone, his name is slandered and horrible things said about him.

THe other thing I am worn out with hearing from the critics of those who are LIVING by Faith is the criticism of their prosperity. No one criticizes Donald Trump, Bill Gates or Oprah for living well. All of these ministers that are being criticized and harassed have written many best-selling books which is their private income from the fruit of their labors. They are not living high on the hog from the "widow's mite" in the offering plate. The last I heard Heaven is not loaded with tar paper shacks, tenement government housing or one-room log cabins. God is lavish, abundant and likes the look of gold in His environment. Don't tell Sen. Grassley as he may issue a subpeona for God's financial records for congressional review.

TeaRose, the god of this world likes to control the money supply and pays his servants well. He is enraged when God's people realize that poverty is part of the curse and step out of it by faith. He loves to use this as a stick to stir up others who have bought the lie that to be poor is to be holy. Pure baloney!

HAHA you gave me a good laugh. Thanks!
We are redeemed from the curse of poverty so
LET THE REDEEMED OF THE LORD SAY SO!!!!!!!!!!!
He's a GOOD GOD!

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

Is this an example of spirit-filled? Don't worry, Texas Sue. I just wanted to give folks a chance to rethink and decide for themselves. I didn't come here to disrupt or divide or sow discord. But I am seeing that I am not wanted here: a huge part of the "stench" that you were referring to that you hope will blow away. I may post another video or two, respond if ever necessary. But this website was never meant to be a format for debate and I respect that

and for that I apologize.

Compare this to the man TexasSue criticized:

Kman , I love that video of Hagin and Copeland and Brazee....
YES THEY SURE WERE DRUNK!!!!!!!!!!

In the HOLY GHOST.

I think its awesome and a merry heart does good like medicine.

As for your D Hunt video , was a very good vid I liked what he said about the Rapture.!

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

If believer's spent more time like this, there'd be much less feuding and much more uplifting fellowship going on.

There's nothing like it (this side of heaven )

Website: savvyinternetladies.com/blog

I'm so glad you liked it. But does he deserve this criticism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Sue
It seems the only preachers that are trashed regularly are the ones who acknowledge and honor the third person of the Godhead, Holy Spirit. Dave Hunt and others like him who do not acknowledge the power of the Holy Spirit and the way He operates must surely grieve the Father and Lord Jesus.

PS-I can't say I share your enthusiasm for the others though

Well first it doesnt benefit any of us to get into quarreling, O Me O My, thats going on in WAY too many threads right now.

I dont know D Hunt so I have no idea his beliefs on the Holy Spirit. The video only showed his opinion of the Rapture and IT WAS a good one. So I really cant comment on Texas Sue's opinion of him, about the Holy Spirit.

And Last, remember the story of David, when he danced before the Lord? His wife was HUMILIATED by his behavior....... People did not understand the JOY he felt from his God, or why he behaved as he did. HE UNDERSTOOD IT THO.
The bible says, In the presence of the Lord there is fullness of joy.
Tell me please, and Im not being facetious!!! Where is that joy in the church today? Not by telling everyone what they want to hear.
Ive been in church since I was 5, so for 34 years. Ive NEVER EVER SEEN THE FULLNESS OF JOY, ( like that with the Hagin video.) until People starting demostrating that joy.
We are given ONLY ONE STANDARD BY WHICH TO TEST THE SPIRITS...

If they confess Jesus as Lord and Savior and that believe that He was crucified and resurrected!

THATS IT....NO OTHER STANDARD EXIST TO TEST THE SPIRITS.

Do Hagin and Copeland confess this? ABSOLUTELY! UNQUESTIONABLY YES!
We are all different and all need different aspects of who God is and demonstrations of the Holy Spirit. I need Him to be the Father I never had. My husband needs him in a different way than I. Thats why there are so many names of God. HE IS THE 'I AM'...

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

Yes. It took me hours to read some of those threads and I'm just now getting back. I'm kind of relieved.
I began thinking seriously that I was the one, the sole perpetrator, disrupting the peace at RITA. But on the contrary, you are the only one stopping by, so how could that be possible?

But your above quote is so true. My oldest son, who is having his 32nd birthday today, is a Foursquare Church Youth Pastor. We disagree on the subject of eternal security, we can't change each other's minds,
but we are the best of friends. I am the one who believes in it.

On the videos we will not change eachother's minds, yet, we are respectful to eachother. I like that about you and I love you as a sister in Christ. Even though I don't know you. I would have loved to see David dance. Also, I love to laugh--and I think our Lord does too. We are created in God's image. He is the Architect of laughter. It has seen me through hard times. I did my best laughing in Vietnam, and then there was the time for tears. I feel for the men who died in Afghanistan today and I'm rather depressed about it. Yes, my emotions run deep. I just felt the behaviour in the videos were way over the top. Please check out Benny Hinn's videos on my other thread where he wanted to kill folks who opposed him.
On the thread about his wife divorcing him. Just look for Kman on your right because nobody looks at it.

I guess this is my post to ramble. My heart goes out for Texas Sue. I know she is hurting right now. (I lost my dad 15 months ago and it's hard). But I expect the rapture soon. TSue and I agree on the emergent church and much about the new age and the NWO. She has never addressed me personally. We disagree on the Bush family. I have read up on Skull & Bones which they are members of...anyway, I hope she's not angry with me. This may be my last post. I'm not sure at this point. But I don't want to be anyone's problem. Thanks for listening. (yeah, right now you're the only one)

AHHH, youre not anyones problem. I like listening to what people have to say. There is always something to gleen out of it even we dont agree.
I would wager none of us will ever completely agree! not in this life anyway. lol

As long as we agree in Jesus! Isnt that what matters
everything else is what??

Dont let it be your last post...this has been a crazy day on Rita.
I was pretty sure it wasnt a Full Moon
Anyway we gotta let this roll off, like I said on my other post,
His mercies are new every morning, so let ours be too
agree to disagree right? as long as we maintain our respect for each other!

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

Kman, don't leave! These forums go back and forth like waves. Sometimes everyone is getting along great and other times there is controversy for awhile. Just like a real family!

Here's a gift for you to stay. Don't know if you ever saw this on the other post I put it on - back when we were talking about old cars.

Is this like your old truck?



We, here at RITA, need your balanced and grounded wisdom. Please don't leave. God is using you here.

Blessings to you.

YSIC,

Diane

Wow! What a beautiful truck. Yes. Similiar. Just the nose was a little shorter. Thank you. That was a special gift.

Okay. You have given me food for thought. But, of course, a lot of people don't agree with you - I mean about the balanced and grounded wisdom. Or I would say
mostly I'm just ignored. Like T.S. Eliot once said - something like:

"I feel like a pair of ragged claws
scuttling across the floor of silent seas"

Does anyone have a problem with this?

I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not, Kman. Common sense and wisdom is getting harder and harder to come by. You are a man of both, and will be used, if you are willing, to show the way.

This whole "drunk in the spirit" thing is really getting out of hand. Plain and simple, if what is being done is not totally and completely glorifying Jesus, then it is not of Him. Certainly that video you posted was enlightening. How can any of that be considered the Fruit of the Spirit of self control? I didn't see Jesus being Glorified at all in that. If I weren't a Christian and was given that clip, I sure wouldn't come out a Christian after seeing it.

Anyway, I could give more of an opinion, but the way things are going today on this forum, I better keep my mouth shut.

I will miss you if you go Kman.

Ok, off to bed.

Psalm 82:5-8 (King James Version)

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT MEANS WE ARE EQUAL
BUT I think this is where they get that from.

Email: iampriceles@aol.com

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Thanks much for showing me this. It's bedtime and my wife and I will make that chapter our bible reading for the night. I'll plan to have more to say tomorrow
since you and Diane C have both given me cause to hang around (the thread - the one I'm hanging by - has gotten stronger.) I thank you both.

My first thought (gut reaction) is it's so easy to take a verse out of context (to satisfy approbation?) Everyone perhaps in the flesh desires to be their own little god (to one degree or another). Of course that was the lie that led to the original sin: "ye shall be as gods."
That, of course, is the epitome of pride, and if you read the whole discourse I have posted in print [by Benny Hinn]. . . well, I hope you read it. It speaks for itself.

Well, now I have to read Psalms 82. It's great having this peaceful dialogue only in search of the truth and getting back into the Word.

And again, thanks so much Diane C.
TeaRose.

John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes
Psalms 82

Verse 1
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Standeth — To observe all that is said or done there.

Mighty — Kings or chief rulers. By their congregation he understands all persons whatsoever of this high and sacred order.

Judgeth — Passes sentence upon them.

The gods — Judges and magistrates are called gods, because they have their commission from God, and act as his deputies.

Verse 2

How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? /*Selah*/.

How long — The psalmist speaks to them in God's name.

Accept — By giving sentence according to your respect or affection to the person.

Verse 5

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

They — The magistrates of whom this psalm treats.

Know not — The duty of their place.

Nor will — Their ignorance is wilful.

Walk on — They persist: it is their constant course.

In darkness — In their sinful courses.

The foundations — This corruption of the supreme rulers, flows from them to their inferior officers and members.

Verse 6

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Have said — I have given you my name and power to rule your people in my stead.

All — Not only the rulers of Israel, but of all other nations.

Children — Representing my person, and bearing both my name and authority.

Verse 7

But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Like men — Or, like ordinary men.

Verse 8

Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Arise — Take the sword of justice into thine own hand.

I have been told from friends of mine who work for KCM that the Copelands have a special ministry to help out regular people who have financal needs...not just giving them a couple hundred or so but tens of thousands at one time.... its not something everyone knows about ......but it is there....

As illustrated below, the intriguing idea that we are god, us, the bride of Christ, has its thread throughout the modern "church."

It runs through Greek Orthodoxy, through Catholicism, through the Emerging Church, and yes, through the Charismatic Movement. Its potency, its poison, began when Satan said: "I am like the most high," entered through the garden of Eden when Satan tempted Adam,
was there in the building of the Tower of Babel. Now it's here, as it was in the days of Noah. It's time to make a choice. Does it follow that "in Christ" means: we are, each and every believer, a little god?

This is only the last half of the article.
For the full article, please go to the link below:

http://www.raptureready.com/resource/hunt/dh7.html

Church, Tradition or Christ?
Dave Hunt (last half only)

Christoforos Stavropoulos, leading Greek Orthodox scholar, explains (p 184), "In the Holy Scriptures...we read of a unique call directed to us...: 'You are gods...all of you' (Ps 82:6; Jn 10:34)....As human beings we each have this one unique calling, to achieve theosis...to become a god, to be like God Himself...." Such was Lucifer's ambition: "I will be like the most High" (Isa 14:14)!

Psalms 82:6 is not a call to become gods but a declaration that men already were gods through Adam's rebellion ("the man has become as one of us" - Gn 3:22), which caused the expulsion from the Garden (vv 23-24). There is only one true God; all gods are false. God declares, 'The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth [no man-god created the universe], even they shall perish from the earth..." (Jer 10:11). Yet Kenneth Copeland and Paul Crouch (like Shirley MacLaine) insist on TBN that they are indeed gods!

Similarly, in his celebrated book, Crossing The Threshold of Hope (Knopf, 1994), Pope John Paul II explains that "salvation and divinization" are the "ultimate purpose" of man's life. "The divinization of man comes from God" (p l95). Likewise, the new universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, quoting St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas, declares, "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God....The only begotten Son of God...assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods" (par 460).

Seventy-five percent of Russians claim to be Orthodox, yet 63% are atheists.5 In Tsarist times the Russian Orthodox Church was the official state church and its consent was required for any law to be passed. Russian Christian Radio (P.O. Box 1667, Estes Park, CO 80517) comments:

"The Orthodox Church was behind the persecution of evangelical Christians long before the communists came into power...- [Today] the same men [in the church] who cooperated with the Communist rulers ...are still in power....

There are definite signs of a rising opposition by the Orthodox Church against Protestant evangelistic groups.... Protestants are being accused of proselytizing and are being warned not to try to change anyone's church affiliation...."

The Dallas Morning News (7/l5/93) reported, "Dr. [Billy] Graham met with the Russian Orthodox patriarch and... [they] agreed that proselytizing was inappropriate." Russian lawmakers later voted to ban proselytizing by foreigners. The Orthodox Church opposes the gospel throughout Russia. Every morning on Russian TV an Orthodox priest urges viewers not to listen to evangelicals from the West. In Moscow young Orthodox hooligans accompanied by their priest harass evangelicals, shouting, "We don't need your Jesus, we have our own Christianity."

Another friend writes, "Having lived and ministered in Russia for several years, I know how hard it is to get Christians in this country to understand that the Russian Orthodox religion is not Christianity." A false view is being perpetuated by evangelical leaders. Early in June 1996, Franklin Graham, interviewed on CNBC, declared, "Whether it's the Roman Catholic Church...the Orthodox Church ...we'd all agree...it's Jesus Christ who paid the penalty for sin." That statement was tragically deceptive. Could Franklin be unaware that Catholicism and Orthodoxy, while using the same biblical words as evangelicals, mean something else?

In 1992, Robert Schuller launched a new organization called Churches United in Global Mission (CUGM), "to share positively the message of Jesus Christ ...[in] a spirit of unity that is truly Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, evangelical and charismatic." A friend of mine wrote from Moscow, "On his [Robert Schuller's] Sunday morning telecast he said something like, 'If being a Protestant means that I protest my Catholic brothers...[or] against my Orthodox brothers . . . [or] against believers of other religions, I am not a Protestant."'

Evangelicals coming from the West to evangelize Russians naively look to the Orthodox Church for help and are often duped. Jerry Falwell was part of a large evangelistic outreach in Moscow last year involving a tour which many Americans joined to see the "wonderful response to the gospel in the former Soviet Union." Jerry was the principal speaker at a large gathering in Moscow's Olympic Stadium. According to Russian/English-speaking attendees, he gave a clear gospel message, but the translator changed it to conform to Orthodox belief. When Jerry gave the invitation to receive Christ (offensive to Orthodoxy), the translator made it sound like a call for all who wanted to join in prayer. Many people raised their hands, leading Jerry and those with him to mistakenly believe there had been a great response to the gospel.

A further deception was the fact that a major purpose of the meeting in Olympic Stadium was to commemorate the fourth anniversary of the martyrdom of celebrated Orthodox priest Alexander Menn. There were pantomimes and speeches by Orthodox priests honoring him and the distribution of thousands of his books in Russian. Falwell and his team had no idea of the heresies in the Russian copies because the English copy they received deleted favorable references to Buddha and Confucius, that all religions lead to God and that God had spoken through every founder of the great religions. Menn promoted evolution and the power of icons as a window to God and, loyal to Orthodoxy, rejected the biblical gospel. Josh McDowell was also unwittingly involved in a meeting in Moscow where Alexander Menn was again celebrated.

Campus Crusade for Christ has long accepted Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy as true Christianity. A former [Crusade] staff member who became an Orthodox priest testifies, "During my two-and-a-half years on staff [at Crusade headquarters]...I fully participated in the nearby Greek Orthodox parish, Saint Prophet Elias....Campus Crusade encouraged my active participation...."6 Frank Schaeffer (son of Francis and Edith Schaeffer) dedicates Dancing Alone (Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1994), the story of his conversion to Orthodoxy, to several former Campus Crusade staff members who are now Orthodox priests and who introduced him to the Orthodox Church.

Schaeffer confesses that the evangelical faith in which his famous parents reared him had to be renounced as a false religion in order to embrace the Catholic/Orthodox faith. Yet Colson, Bright, Packer and other evangelicals embrace Catholics as partners in the gospel! Schaeffer now calls being "born again" the Protestant's "meaningless...magical instantaneous 'silver bullet' solution to sin." He says we are not saved by "believing that Christ died on the cross for us [but] by struggling to become like Christ....We are gradually saved as we are deified." (His emphasis)

We have a "church growth" and "prayer and fasting for revival" movement led by those who refuse to distinguish between biblical truth and error and who join in partnership with the proclaimers of a false gospel. No wonder the statistics reveal a growing counterfeit Christianity. Let us, by the power of God, resist the pressure to conform to today's "Christianity," and stand firmly for sound biblical doctrine. The destiny of souls depends upon it! TBC

Endnotes =======================

1 Our Sunday Visitor (Aug. 4, 1996), 15.
2 Juli Loesch Wiley, "Time to Communicate What Catholicism Is & Is Not" (New Oxford Review, Jul. - Aug. 1996), 18-19.
3 Church & State (Oct. 1991), 16.
4 "The Religious Century Nears" (The Wall Street Journal, July 6, 1995).
5 Christianity Today (Dec. 12, 1994), 60.
6 Peter E. Gillquist, ed., Coming Home: Why Protestant Clergy are Becoming Orthodox (Conciliar Press, 1992), 64.