When talking with people about the change at the rapture and the saints the whole church walking the earth for 40 days in there glorified bodies.

Many people say what do you expect the the Lord to just wait up there 40 days in the clouds while we do stuff on earth? To us that sounds like big boring thing. But i dont think so... He was with Israel 40 years in the cloud 40days wouldnt be a big deal at all. Plus he watching would definatly put fear to the enemy now wouldnt it?

Hi Abbershay, I have to say that I disagree with the idea that we will be given resurrected bodies and here on earth for 40 days. What I believe from reading the Word is that we are instantly taken out of here, in a twinkling of an eye. This will result in great shock/chaos/sudden destruction to those left behind.

This is the opposite of a glorious evangelism experience that would result with Christians left behind in glorified bodies. I believe that these ideas conflict and cannot be reconciled with the intent of the sudden snatching of the church at the rapture.

The bible clearly says that there will be evangelism by 144,000 Jewish males after the rapture. It does not refer to the church evangelising. The event of the rapture refers to the age of grace closing and the church is a product of the age of grace.

That is the way that I understand it.

that is NOT in the word of GOD..
After the rapture ( very soon ) we go to the JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST for rewards!!
praise LORD JESUS

Where does it say we are removed in a twinkling of an eye? It doesnt. it says changed in the twinkiling of an eye.

That is correct, Melissa... NO WHERE does the Bible show that the Church being left behind after the "Harpazo" (the yanked out of danger) takes place.

Jesus stated very clear two times that the Church would be removed to "ESCAPE" the tribulation.

He never once stated that we would stay here to preach later on.

Revelation shows this in it's context as well.. The Church is being shown up to Chapter 4 and then after that the Church is NO LONGER involved..

Also note that Jesus is referred to as "Gentile" names up to Chapter 4 (Alpha and Omega), (the faithful witness), etc., and after Chapter 4, Jesus name is referred to as "Jewish" idioms; (the Lion of the tribe of Juda),(the Lamb), etc..

In Chapter 5 we see the Church being in Heaven around the throne just before the tribulation begins at chapter 6.. (Rev.5:9-11)


Joseph

Cheryl of course its in the word Yahushuah is our example.

Rj this is before the harpazo this is at the change in the twinkiling of an eye.

What makes you think that rev chapter 4 is the begining of the tribulation? ISnt it the beginging of the seal judgements?

I have no dought that the seven years are for the jews and not the church, however that doesnt mean that the church is not going to do great exploits before she leaves. This battle is far bigger than you realize and we cannot do it in our natural bodies.

As i said we have an example. Its up to you if you want to ignor the prophetic picture.

Abbershay, I believe the Lord uses the "twinkling in an eye" reference to explain just how fast we are going to be transformed and out of here. He is meeting us in the air to take us home!

I was reading Ephesians Chap 2 and 3 that really get into why the Lord has made the church, basically it is so that He can display His love and mercy in saving us!

I do not believe the church was created to do exploits, but rather to bring the "wise" down to their knees. Remember, the Lord does not want any flesh to glory! When we are in our glorified state we will be with Him!

Just some stuff for you to consider!

It is interesting to notice that when Jesus appears after His ressurection in the glorified body that He is not coming to non believers (at least as gospels depict) but only to belivers.
In that sense we would have no one to serve to (as the church is gone).

It would a nice thougth to be able to appear to some people we pray for now after Rapture but who knows what that would bring actually to them. Perhaps more chaos as far as what happenned. Would they think that we came back as "taken" people from those sci-fi UFO movies(such as 4400). Would we be truly able to serve them for salvation??? If they reject Christ now in us, the clay vessel, would they recieve it in "angelic" form??? Later in Revelation we see angel proclaiming gospel to all people and yet we see people cursing God down there.

I truly doubt that anything like that - lingering and ministering in glorified bodies after Rapture - would be happening. We could do no more that what we are able to do now - see Mark 16 for signs that accompany our ministry NOW!!!

We will though come back with Christ at the second coming to serve under His kingship for 1000years.
But that will be another Moed - another dispensation. The Satan will be gone... bound up. I know that will be great time I can look forward to.

Maranatha,

Ales

the church at the rapture IN THE AIR, (which happens before God's wrath begins) is taken as a COMPLETED body/bride to heaven.

Our Jesus and Sovereign Lord makes it clear, His church is with Him ABOVE when He turns His attention to Israel, the time of Jacob's trouble, for she is not to God the "church's trouble".

No where, no where in the Bible is there any discussion of the church at all 'evangelizing" the world during the Tribulation.

The Truth as it is written is that The mystery of the church is not mentioned during God's wrath on earth.

Again, no where in the O.T. or the N.T. is the church 'helping' out the Lord as witnesses IN THE TRIBULATION . .

. . . "Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from (OUT OF) the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth".

John 14:1-3 (NASB)
“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

to bad you cant see it in the scripture its really powerful and exciting and far more loving.

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Oh, Knight Michael, That's been one of my most fav, fav, verses ever . . yes, called upward, UNTO HIMSELF WHERE HE IS . .

If some of the church was meant to stay here on earth at the trib, why not expect Jesus to descend to earth at that time enjoined with His glorified Bride, (maybe for 40 days). . Not even a hint of that is mentioned in Scripture.

Donna the answer is he cant, he gave that authority to his church Until the time he returns.

why do you suppose the scripture mentions him being on earth 40 days the leaving into a cloud? he could have just disappeared like he did at other times. ITs a prophetic picture of what is to come. The church will do what he did and more.

Abbershay, Jesus appeared to the disciples and others but was not with them constantly during the 40 days. He did it to teach them and get the church going.

Jesus does not have to do anything else to prove His love for us. He already did it at the cross.

After the rapture there are going to be 21 judgements. The time of grace is now and it seems to be closing fast!

I really believe that this view of the church staying here post resurrection is adding to scripture. It may seem like a nice thing but does not go along with God's laid out plan from what I can see in the bible.

thats to bad you are so dogmatic, Perhaps the greater works isnt for everyone. But the bible says the church will do greater works than he did it also says that we will come to unity.. this has to happen so you may want to rethink your stand.

We have done what Jesus said we would do!!

Do you really believe that ? Cuz i havent walked on water yet or even through wall. I havent taken up any serpents or walked through fire without getting burned , i havent even been transported in the natural. I have yet to even see the lame walk after i prayed for them.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The desciples did this stuff. Christians today have some of the same gifts, maybe more so in other countries than here.

I truly believe what I have said or I would not say it and I feel strongly enough to stand up for this view as I believe it is a very serious one.

I am sure that you have some fruit of the spirit gifts that you have been using and that the Lord has done a lot through you. Maybe even in just your prayers! We will probably be stunned to find out what the Lord has accomplished through us!

this is adressed to anyone who is a follower actually you are supposed to be a disciple , it didnt end with the twelve. Like i said i havent did all those things but i plan to real soon.

Abbershay, I was not going to comment on this subject anymore but I wanted to just share a thought on this that came to me this morning. I believe the example of Jesus being in his resurrected body here on earth for 40 days could be a witness of sorts, however it actually disproves your theory.

Jesus performed all of his miracles,etc. when he was still in his earthly body, not while in his resurrected body. I believe that the church also follows this example and will be used by the Lord to do whatever miracles, etc., that He choses while we are in our earthly bodies.

There is a great verse in Colossians 2 3:4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

I truly think this is the only time we will appear in glory on this earth, that is with Christ when He appears at the second coming!!

It's so clear, . . . God does not speak about the church being on earth during the Trib.

Yes, Melissa, we won't be here during the Trib.

The Church's presence on Earth during the Trib would cause us, wouldn't it, to re-invent the church's blessed Hope and assurance of Christ's imminent call.

We are in Heaven as the Bride of Christ in His chambers above during that time God rains down His wrath on a God-forsaken world.

No where in Scripture are we to interpret the church being on earth during that time. Daniel's week is speaking of God's focus on Jacob's trouble.

Amen Donna, I agree with you! What a wonderful future we have to focus on and I think that we need to try to not look back. The Lord will provide for those left behind in His own way. I believe we are to try to just look forward similar to Lot when he was removed from Sodom. I think that the Lord was showing us a picture of how we need to face leaving the earth at this time and that is with our eyes on Him and not on the past or what we are leaving behind.

May, our faith like Enoch's, reveal to our LORD the Bride's stayed readiness for rapture.

Though the world laughs at Christ's coming, The WORD is true . . JESUS is preparing His Bride for a heavenly celebration.

After the Snatch The LORD THEN makes ready His chosen to have 'eyes' to see the LION OF JUDAH coming to earth as KING of Kings
TO earth to set up His promised Kingdom . . amen, Melissa . . amen!!

you guys are very dogmatic about doing nothing..


one thing u are assuming this is the trib. and not it doesnt negate the imminent call as one has to be ready at all time you never know when u are going to die. Seems to me walking through walls is a miracle and so is traveling at the speed of thought , not to mention opening up scriptures. He gave the power to the church and the church has to come to unity before she can leave, this isnt happening in this present form. And you never answered any of my questions.

It's simply NOT the purpose of the Tribulation to prepare the church for glory.

It's worth repeating: NONE of the Old Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church
and NONE of the New Testament passages on the Tribulation mention the church.

The Scriptures CLEARLY teach that all, not part, of the TRUE church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the Bride,. . 1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17

We, the church are 'commanded' to look for "the glorious appearing" of Christ to His own. . . Titus 2:13

This 'command' would lose significance to us if the Tribulation intervenes before the Snatch.

We, the church are to walk in the command to purify ourselves in view of our Lord's imminent appearing.

This argument has gone on before on RITA which, (REMINDER) is a PRE-Trib Forum.

1. It is fruitless because those who are pro or con are not going to change their minds no matter how many points go on the thread.

2. It is extra-biblical because no scripture supports it.

3. It causes confusion every time. Confusion is never from Holy Spirit.

We are waiting and listening for the FINAL TRUMPET and have better ways of spending that interim time. My opinion: Put a lid on it.

Donna did you even read the last post?

Abershay--many christians cast out demons as Jesus did...we have the same authority and we can do it if we only believe,if that is our calling...we all have different gifts and different levels of faith..always changing and hopefully growing.I think if I am correct u are a baby christian...try not to get so frustrated,I know it is hard,and realize when a brethren is giving advice,it is to teach and correct ,in love of course...we all need to learn not to become so defenseive when being shown our errors

sue i agree...lol....and besides I have never even heard of the concept of walking on earth for 40 days

On the contrary, I don't think it can be counted the number of missionaries who have gone into nearly every part of the world to preach the gospel. Of which I am one who was on the mission field for 8 years.

It is not something waiting to be done, it has been being accomplished since the time Jesus said to go into all the world. Proven by countless salvations, lives turned toward God, and martyrdom.

It is sounding Abbershay as tho you feel there are no miracles taking place in the earth anywhere. The fact that any individual is not walking in these signs, does not mean they are not happening. Search and you will find them.

I will share this, not to speak anything of myself, but as a witness to God's moving in and on this earth today...when I was a baby christian just learning the Bible, I didn't want a mass of clouds coming to cover my sunbathing. So I looked up in the sky and commanded them to go away. And do you know, they did not go away, but they split in two just before reaching the sun, and went around the sun on both sides! I was astonished! That was I'm sure, a silly misuse of the word, but I acted in faith and I believe God honored it - with maybe even a little smile on His face.

Years later a fire started on my kitchen stove and I was not thinking biblically at all. I immediately had turned toward my fridge thinking where is that baking soda in there, to smother the fire. In that instant that I had turned away, "something" just turned me right back to face the flames that were now nearly to the bottom of the upper cabinets. Instinctively I stretched out my arm, pointed to the fire and began to strongly say, "IN THE NAME......." I didn't even get the last part out - the flames vanished! I was amazed and have never forgotten it.

The last thing - I was taking spanish classes for half of every day when I first went on the mission field. I couldn't speak the language yet, and my teacher knew about one handful of english. In time she was able to get across how she had had 4 miscarriages. In general curiosity I asked her if she would one day want to try for another child, and she said yes.

Later the Lord began impressing me to pray for her to become pregnant, which He did by leading me to certain scriptures of confirmation for her and for myself, because I was petrified to pray for her.

It's too long to detail here, but I did gather all my written out prayers and went to class. I was barely able to get across to her that I felt God was telling me I should pray for her. And when we seemed to understand each other enough, and she agreed, I began to pray - in english. I prayed everything from generational curses upward. She had very little understanding of what I had prayed.

Now I was truly astonished and amazed to learn before the end of that same month, that this teacher was pregnant. Nine months later she delivered a healthy baby girl, and she is a teenager today.

I said all this not for me, but to glorify the Name of the Lord for the fact that He is performing miracles today. And for you to be encouraged and assured that God is living and active in the area of administering His gifts throughout the earth, thru and for anyone who is open and willing. You don't have to wait, just believe, have faith in God, and step out when He so impresses you to. You and the object of your acts of faith will be blessed.

Dear Believer , please stay here ...thank you for reconsidering .
bonnie