note: I apologize for the use of the word "Easter." "Little Jesus's running around..." ? I understand what he meant. As mirrors--not actually "little gods" in the sense of "I AM" (reproductions) as some teach. (I personally wouldn't have said it that way but I know his pure heart.)


UNITY... AT WHAT PRICE?
by Keith Green

Today there is much talk among Christians about the need for unity. Wherever Christians gather you can hear someone saying:

"If only all the believers could get together and agree, then the world would sit up and take notice! THEN the devil would be running scared! Then there would be real revival!!"


The whole ecumenical movement is based on such a conclusion.

I must admit the thought sounds wonderful - to have all those different denominations (and "non"-denominations) in love and fellowship with one another - that would be something, wouldn't it! Ah... but don't hold your breath... IT CAN'T HAPPEN.

There'll always be a couple of real Christians around to spoil it!

"What?!" You say, "How could REAL Christians spoil it? Wouldn't THEY be the very ones who would be the most loving and ready to unite?" Oh yes! True believers are full of love - love for God, love for their brothers and sisters, love for souls - in fact, love would be the VERY THING that would make them oppose a mass move of unity.

"What?!" You say again, "Why that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard! How could love keep them from wanting to get together with everyone else who confesses to love God? You're not going to get me to believe that people with such deep love wouldn't just LOVE to see all the churches and professing Christians come together in unity?

Why, what could they love more than that??"

Well, they love THE TRUTH! Yep, they're pretty attached to it - those true believers can even seem right stubborn and ornery at times - the way they stick to the truth.


UNITY - MAN'S WAY
Some people have the craziest ideas! They want to try and do what only God can do. "Let's play Holy Spirit!" That's what they seem to be saying. They think that if they can just get everyone to quit arguing about their different doctrinal beliefs, then unity is right around the corner. "Let's just all try and fellowship and talk about those things in the Bible we all can agree on."

There's only one problem with that kind of thinking... isn't the Bible ALL true? How can we just find the lowest common denominator to which all Christians can agree to, and label the rest of the Bible (God's Holy Word) "unessential for unity."

In his book, Today's Gospel - Authentic or Synthetic?, Walter Chantry looks into the reasons for the failures of modern evangelism and foreign missions. In the introduction Mr. Chantry writes:

"Having accepted the theory that unity is all-important for world evangelism, both the Church and the individual must lower their estimate of the value of truth. In a large congress on evangelism we could not insist on a truth of God's Word that would offend any brother evangelical. After all, unity (among Christians) is more essential than doctrinal preciseness.

"It is for just this reason that the mission boards are hesitant to answer the question, 'What is the gospel?' Thoroughly to answer that would destroy the mission society, which is a federation of churches who have differing answers to that question. To adopt the position of one church would be to lose the support of five others. The whole system built on unity and generality would crumble."


UNITY - GOD'S WAY
(Jesus' prayer in John 17)

Many base their quest for true godly unity on an important passage in the gospel of John. Here in chapter 17, Jesus is praying for His disciples "that they all may be one..." (v.21). This verse certainly shows that the Lord desires His followers to have unity and truly "be one". But, in the very next verse (v.22), we see some key words "...that they may be one EVEN AS WE ARE ONE."

How are the Father and Son one? In every way! They have no doctrinal disputes. They have no differing theologies. They do not argue over the rapture. They completely agree... on EVERYTHING! But you might ask, "How can every Christian agree on doctrine?

If we wait for that, we'll NEVER have unity!" You're missing the point. It's not knowing "doctrine" that's important, it's knowing God. Only through entering into an intimate, personal relationship with the living God and leaving behind the doctrines and theologies created by men and church tradition, can we ever hope to find the unity Jesus prayed for: "I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one...Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory..." (John 17:23-24).

What does the word "theology" mean anyway? It means "the study of God". Today, theological students do not study God, they study about God. At best, they study the writings of men who themselves have studied God. Why, they really ought to change the word theology to theology-ology or "the study of the study of God!"


TRUE AND FALSE DIVISION
How many times have you heard that somebody was "causing division in the church?" Well, maybe they were supposed to! After all, there are two things that cause division according to the Bible: truth and error. (I can just see now all the eyebrows raising.) Haven't you heard the scripture, "Do you suppose I came to grant peace on earth?

I tell you, no, rather division!" That's right! Jesus said that "from now on five members in one household will be divided three against two, and two against three" (Luke 12:51-52). He said that whole families would be divided over Him. And there are many occasions in the New Testament when whole assemblies of people were divided because of Jesus (John 7:43, 9:16, 10:19, Acts 23:6-7).

You must remember people who love the truth will divide from people who love lies.

Now the Bible does warn us about those who would enter into our midst and cause divisions and factions (Matt. 12:25, Rom. 16:17, 1 Tim. 6:3-5, 2 Tim. 2:14, 2 John 10).

And yes, it has always been the devil's strategy to "divide and conquer." But these divisions are obviously based on error, lies, and usually come from bitter and evil motives (Titus 3:10).

Division that comes from the proclaiming of the truth will usually include some intense reaction and opposition, but it will also produce good fruit and the advancement of God's kingdom (not to mention the conversion of souls.)

What bible story is there, Old Testament or New, where the doing of righteousness or the preaching of the gospel does not divide men and separate them into two very distinct categories: those who are willing to turn and obey God, and those who actually turn on the messenger, because he violently disturbs their false (and usually religious) peace?

And today, when there are so many who are professing religion, is it any wonder that some of the deepest truths in the Bible - repentance, faith, holiness, etc. - are also some of the greatest objects of debate in the Church. It must be said that those who truly want to know God's views on these great pillars of Christian doctrine, will appear to be divisive - and rightly so, in an age when the great gospel message of salvation can be reduced to such a sugar-coated, bakery-item as, "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life!"


WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY?
Those who believe that Christians should stop bickering about their "pet doctrines" are right. Christians should not be argumentative, "...and the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome..." (2 Tim. 2:24). How many times have you heard stupid arguments about prophecy? "But I just KNOW the 10th head on the dragon in Revelation is Tahiti!" This kind of "division" is for the birds.

Yet there ARE scriptural commands to defend the truth. "Study to show thyself approved...always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence" (2 Tim. 2:15, 1 Pet. 3:15).

There are times when we cannot just "be quiet" and let differences go unchallenged, especially when these "differences" are major and dangerous errors that can threaten the faith of those who are weaker and innocently uninformed.

The whole book of Galatians was written by Paul to counteract some very heretical teachings that had crept into the Church.

"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel...there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel...you foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you...? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?...You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace" (Gal. 1:6, 7, 3:1, 3, 5:4).


Them are fightin' words!
Don't you think Paul was accused of causing division for such a strong rebuke?

Yet that's just it...he was trying to! Paul was drawing a very clear line and seemed to be saying, "Those who believe they are saved by the Law, do not belong to Christ!"

And later Peter, in his second epistle, backs Paul up by warning the Church about people misinterpreting some of Paul's writings "...in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Pet. 3:16).

There has always been a need in God's church to strongly divide between truth and false teaching.


WHAT GOD REALLY WANTS
Man-made unity is not what God desires. He wants a holy people. Many Christians believe that unity in itself will bring about a holy revival. But unity cannot bring holiness, only holiness can bring about true unity.

For when God's people start seeking to live, worship and pray according to the Holy Word of God, then God Himself will answer Jesus' prayer and make those who seek Him, truly "one!" THEN God will unite the hearts of those who love Him, and hate sin and error, and He will truly shine forth from the midst of such a people - the true people of God!

"And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one Shepherd." - John 10:16

Computers for Christ - Chicago

THANK YOU for posting this so much !!!
Because it explains exactly why we must speak out against what we SEE and HEAR that misrepresents The Gospel , and not have to feel guilty about doing it, as though we have caused division !
Good words !
bonnie

God bless, Bonnie.


Contending for the faith

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude 3)

Jude long ago addressed a problem in his day which is still very real in our day among Christians. It is easier and more comfortable just to teach and preach about the blessings of our common salvation than it is to contend for the faith, but the latter is more "needful." The word conveys the idea that he was so constrained, evidently by the Holy Spirit, as actually to be in distress about this compelling need. Similarly, his exhortation to "earnestly contend" does not mean to "be argumentative," but rather, to "agonize with intense determination." It is one word in the Greek, epagonizomai (literally, "agonize over"). Defending and contending for the faith is serious, urgent business.

That which we are to defend is "the faith"--the whole body of Christian truth, wherever it is under attack. It would, of course, be especially important to contend for the doctrine of special creation, which is the foundation of all others, and which is the doctrine perpetually under the most concerted and persistent attack by the adversary.

That faith has been, long ago, "once delivered" to the saints. The sense of these words is "once for all turned over for safekeeping." The Lord has entrusted us with His Word, completed and inscripturated, and we must keep it, uncorrupted and intact, for every generation until He returns, preaching and teaching all of it to every creature, to the greatest extent we possibly can.

Finally, note that the safeguarding of the faith was not merely to specially trained theologians or other professionals, but to "the saints." Every Christian believer is commanded to "earnestly contend for the faith."

--Henry M. Morris

Word-Faith Theology

God issues a warning to those who attempt to cloud an important issue as Paul says, "charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:14-15).

People who feel intimidated or weak in their position tend to shift focus of the discussion to another topic or to attack the motives of those in opposition, rather than the facts which are taught in scripture.

For example, the pro-abortion group, instead of staying in the arena of facts concerning the taking of a human life, shift the subject to "a women's right over her own body", and call their opponents fascists or anti-women.

This same pattern is found with some in the word-faith camp. They typically shift the issue, claiming that those who are opposing them are anti-charismatic (cessationists, believing that the miraculous gifts have ceased). This misinformation or red herring is designed to lead their followers to automatically dismiss anything word-faith critics say.

To set the record straight, the staff of Watchman Fellowship is multi-denominational, as are most of the critics of the word-faith movement. Watchman's staff is comprised of Baptists, Presbyterians, Assemblies of God members, etc. Our staff knows that God does heal and does the miraculous.

Most of Watchman's staff believe in the continuance of the miraculous gifts for today. Biblically, all Christians are charismatics in that all Christians possess spiritual gifts.

Those in the word-faith camp who claim their critics are just anti-charismatic are not accurate even about the biblical definition of charisma (spiritual gifts endowed by God) nor are they factual in their assertions.

To drive this point home it is important for the follower of the word-faith teachers to know that many pentecostals and charismatics are very critical of the word-faith theology.

For example, Florence Bulle, a "charismatic," has written an excellent book titled The Many Faces of Deception (formerly, God Wants You Rich and Other Enticing Doctrines).

In the first chapter, "Following God for Fun and Profit," she strongly denounces the "Name-it, Claim-it" teaching, demonstrating how contrary it is to the Scripture and god's way of living.

Well-known pastor and charismatic leader of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith wrote a book, Charisma vs. Charismania, where he writes, "The latest wind of pernicious, unscriptural doctrine to blow through the ranks of some charismatics is the `what-you-say-is-what-you-get' teaching, otherwise known as the prosperity doctrine" (Chuck Smith, Charisma vs. Charismania, p. 135).

He also soundly condemns the teaching of "negative and positive confession" as well as the teaching that sickness is a result of lack of faith. Smith agrees with Watchman when he states that these teachings "sound more like Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science) than the Apostle Paul" (Ibid., parenthesis mine).

R.L. Whitworth had been senior pastor of one of the largest Assemblies of God churches, Calvary Assembly, for 30 years when he wrote the book God Told Me to Tell You.

In it, Whitworth not only exposes the false demonstrations of "the word of knowledge," but also ably condemns the doctrines of the word-faith teachers. He too equates the "name-it and claim-it" theory as a "repeat of the Science of Mind ideas of Earnest Holmes," founder of the New Age church of Religious Science. (R.L. Whitworth, God Told Me to Tell You, p. 121).

Dr. George Wood, an Assistant Superintendent of the Assemblies of God, a pentecostal, writes about the multitude of people he has seen who have experienced "devastating spiritual and psychological damage caused by the positive confession movement."

He observes that there are three basic faulty assumptions controlling the "positive confession" theology.

First, that God wills perfect health, total healing, and complete prosperity for every believer.

Second, that God has obligated Himself to heal every sickness and to financially prosper those who have faith.

Third, any failure is not the fault of God, but is caused by a lack of faith or sin in the individual's life.

Dr. Wood comments that these teachers "have missed the Bible in three ways: They twist particular verses out of their plain meaning; they refuse to deal with Scriptures which plainly have different meanings than those of the `positive confession;' and they fail to let the Bible speak for itself" (Dr. George Wood, Mountain Movers, July 1988).

Well known charismatic, David Wilkerson, writes in the late Keith Green's Last Days Ministries newsletter, that he too has seen many Christians "throughout our nation, whose faith is shipwrecked" because of the "faith" movement.

He writes that they began to "believe that getting every desire of the heart depended simply on getting their formulas correct. They were challenged to launch out in God for prosperity, perfect health, and whatever else their minds could conceive. "Conceive then believe. That includes removing from your vocabulary any negative thoughts, words, or confessions."

Wilkerson comments, "My friends, that kind of theology is silly," and proceeds to present the correct teaching about God's nature and loving relationship in the believer's life.

The Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements' article on "Positive Confession Theology" serves as both a documentation of the heretical teachings and the teachers of the word-faith movement, as well as some sound correction.

It identifies E.W. Kenyon as the founder, and men like Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Charles Capps, Frederick K.C. Price, Robert Tilton, Earl Paulk, and others as his disciples.

The article states that the "theological claims, while based on faulty presuppositions, has a universal appeal" as it feeds the natural fallen nature of man.

The article points out that "the Rhema interpretation is their biased selection of biblical passages, often without due regard to their context. This approach not only does violence to the text but forces the New Testament linguistic data into artificial categories that the Bible authors themselves could not affirm" (Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, 1988, pp. 718-720).

Other Pentecostal and Charismatic scholars have written in-depth correctives to this harmful teaching. This is significant as none of the word-faith teachers claim to be scholars or well-trained theologically. Many times they admit this and even foolishly ridicule those who have a depth of scholarship.

The Bible is very clear that those who become teachers have a much greater responsibility. They are to be well grounded in sound doctrine. (Colossians 2:6-7; Titus 1:9; Titus 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:1-3, 4:6; 2 Timothy 4:1-4; James 3:1).

Dr. Charles Farah, Jr. was Professor of Theology and Historical Studies at Oral Roberts University and wrote an excellent article for Pneuma: The Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies titled, "A Critical Analysis: The "Roots and Fruits" of Faith-Formula Theology" (Spring, 1981, pp. 3-21).

He summarizes his article by noting, "The movement uses Gnostic hermeneutical principles and displaces contextual scientific exegesis. It shares many of the goals of present day humanism, particularly in regards to the creaturely comforts. It is, in fact, a burgeoning heresy" (Ibid., p. 21).

A more recent article in Pneuma, "Cultic Origins of Word-Faith Theology Within the Charismatic Movement", was written by H. Terris Newman, Bible professor at Southeastern College of the Assemblies of God. Newman adds Paul Yonggi Cho, Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Schuller to the list of word-faith teacher who reflect more Mind-Science "theology" than Biblical truth.

He concludes, "In view of the fact of the cultic origins of the health and wealth gospel, its heretical Christology, its devastating effects on human lives and the false portrayal of Christianity it presents to the world, this paper is a call to the wider evangelical community also to engage in an apologetic that will distinguish the gospel of Jesus Christ from those who indeed propagate a different gospel" (Newman, Pneuma: The Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies, Spring 1990, pp. 32-55).

Bear with him. It's long but necessary (to begin to understand
a large complicated movement).

BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO KMAN!!
May YESHUA richly bless u for posting these truths .. this is EXACTLY what HE spoke to me about today...
Unity is wonderful as long as it doesn't compromise JESUS our beautiful LORD and HIS Holy word!!!
I love keith Green, I love Justin Peters..Keith is in Heaven with JESUS (now alive more than ever of course) but they both were not afraid to speak the truth....I viewed Justins videos a while back on the pernicious heresies of the Word-Faith Movement and their greedy schemes....
a scripture comes to mind from Paul...
Galations 4:16.." Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
truth tellers are hated just like they always have been...look what they did to the true prophets in the Bible!! they killed them all...
as King Solomon says.. there's nothing new under the sun!!!
Praise YAHWEH, YESHUA is on the way soon!!!

ChristinCheryl-
I can't begin to express how much your post means to me. I was beginning to feel rather alone and downcast.

I've been following your posts as well and I respect you immensely. Keep up the Good Work.

Yes, Keith Green was the best (and from my generation) .


Thanks again. God bless you.


I'm not alone after all!

So true, Christ in Cheryl!

"Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth." Galations 4:16

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the
seats of them that sold doves." Matt 21:12

"The next day they went back to Jerusalem and again Jesus went to the temple, but this time he took action.

Men were selling the animals for sacrifices right there in the area of the temple! He knew this was not right and he did something about it.

He made a whip out of cords, or small ropes and he drove the money changers out along with the sheep, oxen, and doves.

He turned the tables over and poured out the money on the floor of the temple.

He said, "Take these things away! My Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'"

Yes, unity is wonderful as long as it does not compromise Jesus' beautiful holy word.

Under His Shadow--I so appreciated your scripture references as I did ChristinCheryl's. They were relevant .

Kman,

Thank you for starting this wonderful thread and speaking the truth! I will copy it and re-read it over and over!

May God RICHLY BLESS YOU!

you are NOT alone. I respect you also and look forward to meeting you after our soon departure!!
MARANTHA!! ( forgive me I messed up the message above and the separation got messed up)

None of you are alone!! Tell the truth and they will hate you for it!! We are not of this world, so the world will hate us!

John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

God bless the truth and may we all come to find it!!

Email: brandonpalmer@charter.net

KMan - Some great stuff, I did not get through all of it but liked the first half a whole lot! In love with the Truth, Melissa

Quote (Christ in Cheryl)
.. I HAVE no choice to obey the LORD and what HE tells me to do..r..I have failed HIM so much in the past I want to please and obey HIM...I know HIS will is to expose the works of darkness as intructed in EPHESIANS 5'11
!
you are NOT alone. I respect you also and look forward to meeting you after our soon departure!!
MARANTHA!!..."

The above words including your larger post could have easily been written by me, especially the part "I have failed Him so much in the past." Maybe we will meet up there soon, and it just might even be by next month. I had a dream about the rapture less than two weeks ago and it seemed so real. I can hardly wait!
Again, God bless you, and we are not alone.

Melissa-I'm glad you are reading and hope you can finish through the videos.

Brandon-thanks for your input and encouragement.

Bonnie-thanks again.

Kman, Brandon, and others you'll REALLY apreciate the GRAVE importance of this article from Safegaurding your soul and ALL its meaning....

called the "Angry Man In Hell"



http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/an_angry_man_in_hell.html

Cheryl,
Thanks for the link. I had wanted to get back to you on this, but yesterday I was busy listening to Monte Judah--I found it very encouraging even though he wasn't pre-trib. It's really seeming like next month!
Haven't had time to respond till now and again I have only a few minutes. I agree w/ you the article was very important. I didn't agree w/ everything about the website as a whole because I'm one of those OSAS guys. There was something else there that bothered me but I'm out of time to discuss it. I'll plan to get back to you.

In Christ . . .

There was an interesting thread a while back about two groups of Christians: those of us who like a good debate, and those who are hurt by seeing the debate happen. It was pointed out: there are debates and there are discussions:

de·bate (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v.intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.
v.tr.
1. To deliberate on; consider.
2. To dispute or argue about.
3. To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
4. Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.
n.
1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
4. Obsolete Conflict; strife. (courtesy of Free Online Dictionary)

As you can see, the more severe meanings are now obsolete. Now the definition of discussion:

dis·cuss (d-sks)
tr.v. dis·cussed, dis·cuss·ing, dis·cuss·es
1. To speak with another or others about; talk over.
2. To examine or consider (a subject) in speech or writing.

Sometimes it's only a subtle difference. The Collins English Dictionary included this:
vb (tr)
1. to have a conversation about; consider by talking over; debate

One could even have a debate or discussion over the difference or no difference between the two words--like "reliable" and "dependable." These are either the same or reliable is the state of dependability.

As someone pointed out: "The body is comprised of many different ages, types and attitudes." Culture is another factor. And wasn't it Timothy who was soft-spoken and Peter more outspoken?
The bottom line is I think we all agree on that we must be respectful. But again, due to personality types, etc., this is often misunderstood.

William MacDonald states:

“It is an ungodly tolerance that has allowed so many pulpits in America to be filled with ‘false apostles and deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ’. Detecting a resemblance to conditions in Elijah’s day, J Sidlow Baxter writes ‘Such are the people who today, with sickly kindness, will tolerate teachers of errors in our pulpits because they are such smooth-mannered and amiable gentlemen. They would rather allow error to be preached and souls to be deceived than hurt the preacher’s feelings. Let Baal be worshipped rather than drought come! Let the cancer kill its victim rather than the cruel surgeon use the knife!…The best thing that could happen to some so-called Christian ministers of today is that they should be denounced in God’s name by their hearers’.

It is a sinful tolerance that refuses to castigate a false church system that leads millions to eternal destruction with its perverted gospel. That honours its head as a great evangelist at the same time that he is condemning evangelicals as wolves. That labels God’s prophets as divisive when they denounce its idolatry, its mariolatry and its other heresies. That sends converts back into its deadening clutches.

What has happened to the church of the martyrs?

We have an enormous craving for popularity. This is the stuff of which false prophets are made. We have a desire to avoid unpleasantness at all cost. A desire like this keeps us from confronting, from intervening when we should.

We have a distaste for being different. We find it easier to move along with the crowd, to drift with the tide. It is all too easy to remain silent when we are in an adverse theological climate. We are ‘slaves who dare not to be right with two or three’.

We have lost the capacity for being angry. We are not easily enough disturbed. We are in the sorry state of having no capacity for indignation. We are experts at putting off decisiveness simply because we don’t want to act.

Sometimes we are too blinded by friendship to stand against wrong. When a Christian spoke out against E. J. Carnell’s book ‘The Case For Orthodoxy’ because it argued against the inspiration of the Scriptures, a friend of the author said ‘Well you do not know him personally as I do. He is a gracious gentleman, a godly man’.

Jay Adams was right when he said ‘In some circles, the fear of controversy is so great that preachers and congregations following after them will settle for peace at any cost - even the cost of the truth - God’s truth. The idea is that peace is all- important. Peace is a biblical ideal…but so is purity. The peace of the church may never be bought at the price of the purity of the church. The price is too dear’.

Ecumenism and catholicity are two great buzzwords today. Let’s all get together. Don’t do or say anything to rock the boat. Doctrine divides, they say. What we need is unity.

What we really need is to contend earnestly for the faith in a day when it is being attacked, diluted and denied. We will be tolerant in matters of indifference but intolerant of departure from the truth of God. With Luther, ‘Here we stand. We can do no other’.”

This is taken from the website furnished by CherylinChrist: http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/naming_names__is_it_biblical_.html The whole article is well worth reading.

Most of us are aware now that Monte Judah, for example, is a man to be wary of. When I saw "Kabbalist" next to his name I was put on major alert. However, like so many pointed out, his words this time may very well prove to be true. Any false teaching needs to be exposed. But truth is still truth; time will soon tell.

Cheryl, I promised I would get back to you concerning some problems I had w/ the "Safeguard Your Soul" website. Here is an excerpt from "Perversion of Grace":

"How unscriptural, misleading, and destructive is the doctrine of "once saved always saved" (meaning if we once make a profession of faith in Christ we never again need to worry about the judgment of God)! How many teachers of the Christian faith will stand before God with their followers and discover that God judges every man according to his works!"
http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/the_perversion_of_grace.html. This article is a good example of a subject of debate and I have observed the two camps here at RITA. To some, including myself, this article itself is a perversion of grace.

Here is the second article that is worthy of debate:
http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/john_macarthur.html. I'll withhold comments for now, but it is a serious issue worthy of discussion.

"Cheryl, I promised I would get back to you concerning some problems I had w/ the 'Safeguard Your Soul' website. Here is an excerpt from 'Perversion of Grace':

'How unscriptural, misleading, and destructive is the doctrine of 'once saved always saved' (meaning if we once make a profession of faith in Christ we never again need to worry about the judgment of God)! How many teachers of the Christian faith will stand before God with their followers and discover that God judges every man according to his works!'
http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/the_perversion_of_grace.html. This article is a good example of a subject of debate and I have observed the two camps here at RITA. To some, including myself, this article itself is a perversion of grace.

Here is the second article that is worthy of debate:
http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/john_macarthur.html. I'll withhold comments for now, but it is a serious issue worthy of discussion."

Cheryl--in case you missed this, just wanted to try one more time. Not knowing how you believe on these issues, I now find myself hoping I didn't offend you by bringing these out. It sometimes seems it's hard to find even two people that agree on everything. Yet, I don't know if that's the case; and if it is
that's okay, too. I hope to hear from you.

Email: Bobmix98@yahoo.com

Shalom Kman,
I am absolutely NOT offended AT ALL...Like I said before IM a truth-seeker...Whatever JESUS says in the BIble is what I believe...I cant be offended at the truth and if im wrong I do try to admit and accept correction( JESUS usually straightens me out, lol)..
I couldn't click on the links above but I do understand there is a debate on OSAS...Im not quite 100 percent sure where I stand on that...I want to believe in it but there are scriptures saying some "fall away from the faith"...Or maybe someone can fall back into sin and the world , not repent and TURN their back on JESUS and tell HIM they don't want to follow HIM anymore( hard to imagine, I know)..... Honestly Im still not sure..

Im trying, by GODS grace to hold TIGHT to my faith..and since it is a gift from GOD ( as everything is) I know it wont be taken back, BUT I do have the promise" He who started a good work in me shall surely FINISH it!!

thanks for being a man of your word and getting back to me....Ill meet ya soon after the Rapture( LORD willing) soon!!

A gracious answer as always. If you want to see the links, I found you have to scroll up aways to the original links. But anyway, my son is a Foursquare pastor and we have disagreed for years on eternal security. Our conversations are always very civil even with a sense-of-humor. He just told me he's being laid off in July. With 3 kids and a wife that's a difficult event.

Email: Bobmix98@yahoo.com

I don't know, sometimes I like a guy w/ iron in his soul . . .
that is, when he is right (defending the Word of God)

I think this is Part 1 of 3

Email: Bobmix98@yahoo.com

THE DOCTRINE OF HERDISM

“The head monkey at Paris puts on a traveller’s cap, and all the monkeys in America do the same.” (Walden, pg 25: Henry David Thoreau.) He goes on to say:
“I sometimes despair of getting any thing quite simple and honest done in this world by the help of men.” Thoreau penned these words sometime between 1845-1847 on the shore of Walden Pond. It is a shame he died fifteen years later still a Transcendentalist. Still he had much depth in understanding the superficial nature of man with all of its extraneous trappings.

Some things never change--only the styles and fashions. Now you could say the head gangsta in prison put on his baggy pants and you know the rest. Now you have pants falling down and perfectly normal. You have people walking penguin-like, apelike, or as if constipated; and now once again, it’s cool to say cool to describe it—the coolest thing since who knows what? pant leg rolled on inside instead of out? First cuffs were fat, then thin, then inside. The ultimate in cool. I remember those days (dinosaur or pre-troglodyte).

Head monkey wears black; everybody wears black. Head monkey wears a tattoo; everybody wears a tattoo. Head monkey chooses Satanic symbols; everyone is sporting Satanic symbols. Father monkey flashes a horned devil (el Diablo) sign http://www.texemarrs.com/122005/satans_el_diablo.htm; everyone's flashing a horned devil sign. Head monkey says: I am God! and all god’s children say ...

Email: Bobmix98@yahoo.com