I have noticed something going on here at Rita as well as other boards. There is a division of sorts, a kind of division that you may, or may not think of. It's not the kind of division that is perceived between two people debating, but rather a division between those who debate and those who are hurt by seeing the debate happen.

There are those of us who enjoy a good debate, and I happen to be one of them. We can debate until the cows come home and nobody (amongst those of us who enjoy it anyway) gets insulted or hurt. But there are those who, for whatever reasons, are very sensitive to debates, and it upsets them terribly. They see debate as division in the body and it hurts them. This, in my opinion, is where a division is forming. It is forming between those who like a good debate and/or feel compelled to correct a perceived error, and those who get wounded by such debates. While I enjoy a good debate as much as any, I have been convicted by the Holy Spirit to try and voice my opinions in such a way as not to wound the more sensitive among us. That's hard to do.

Many debates are about nothing more then correcting a perceived error. Sometimes that error is so minor as to not be worth the grief caused by correcting it. Sometimes the correction itself is nothing more than just another erroneous opinion.

Sometimes someone innocently starts a conversation. A difference of opinion erupts and the innocent one who started the conversation gets hurt, thinking they started it. I'm not singling out any one individual, I have watched it happen to several. I don't believe that any of us intentionally tries to hurt anybody, and some of us may even be unaware of the hurt going on.

We are entering into a time when things are changing rapidly, we cannot afford to be hurting each other. We need to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Text is an extremely hard medium to express strong opinions without coming across as hostile. It's a lot of work to try and express a strong opinion in a loving way, especially using a text based medium.

While I recognize that there is a need to correct error, especially grievous error, we have to be more gentle in how we go about it. Many of those here at Rita didn't come here for a debate they came here to have their hope in HIM and what he is going to do strengthened. They came so they could be uplifted and have their faith in a Loving Jesus made stronger so they could get through a tough life. They came to share things that they are excited about with others of the same mind, not to have their excitement squashed by those who feel a need to give an opposing opinion.

It's easier to correct a wayward donkey by tempting him with a carrot, then by beating him with a stick. This is a very intelligent group of people. I know that we can come up with a way to correct and discuss differing opinions without hurting the more sensitive among us.

I am a man of strong opinions myself. Forgive me if I have hurt anybody by the way I express them. While I want to correct those that I believe are wrong about something, many times my wanting to correct is more about me then them.


D. Boyter

I agree! Thank you Dave for saying it so well!

I agree..excellent post.

I myself like hearing other points of view, I think that is how we learn. But I have seen some posts that are just argumentative and it is their way or the highway..

Thanks for great insight

Email: sbell48907@aol.com

Gentleness turns 'debates' in to discussions (our intro here includes such) . . I pray that is always the intent among us blessed RITAians . .

I certainly don't like anyone to argue but this is a discussion list and we are discussing potentially life and death, heaven and hell issues.

I think we are all adults and can handle that we have passions that are not always identicial.

If we disagree respectfully, I do not see a problem.
There is no sin in disagreement if we all keep it civil and constructive.

This is a rough world and we are in the beginning of very perilous times. Us having differences of opinions here (providing no one is atttacked) is a small matter in such times and may even be an opportunity to learn.

Bless you all

I think this is a good point.

I think tho that division and debate are two different things, and that that is a good point for the sensitive one's to see and consider.

I think the debator's should have an unwritten rule, that it stay's civil as THE LORD leads it thru to the finish, and I think the sensitive's to debate, should give room for those who love a good debate.

The sensitive one's can leave that thread for others, and/or they can pray and trust that the debator's arrive at a place of peace in the end.

I would not want to see the spirit of debate squelched on Rita!

But at the same time, I think the debator's need to commit to respectful back and forth, either until the thread ends, or we agree to disagree.

While I do agree with you to a point. I respectfully disagree on a couple of things. Not all the points that are "argued" about are life and death. No, not all here are adults, there may be teenagers here as well, and young adults handle life differently then older adults. As do those of differing, backgrounds, cultures, understanding, etc that we may know nothing about. Adults all handle things differently. My wife for example is extremely sensitive to how I disagree with her, I can disagree in a way that hurts, or helps, wisdom will help me do it right.

Being an adult doesn't necessarily give us license to say what we wish. It would be counter productive for me correct and help one individual while causing another to stumble.

Also I did state that;

so I recognize the need to correct where necessary.

To quote Donna;



Differences of opinion are fine. I love differing opinions, and I'm certainly not against them. Even in this post my opinion differs with yours, and I'm trying to state my differences in a gentile and productive a way as I know how.

Being passionate is part of who we are. I'm passionate about many things myself. But I am (speaking for myself only) going to try very hard at presenting those passions, disagreements, etc in a way that doesn't hurt others.

2HH if I am misunderstanding you, forgive me. I'm certainly not trying to argue. I'm merely hoping to make sure I'm understood. Communication is not one of my best skills, as I'm a computer nerd by profession . All I am saying is that we can all be more gentle. I am going to try.

D. Boyter

Since we are speaking in generalities it is quite hard to know exactly what you are referring to but
I think you have a great suggestion to be more gentle.

A wonderful idea.

Dave dear Brother,

Very good points, great post.
The body is comprised of many different ages, types and attitudes. I my self am a sensitive person at heart and do not like division, where as 2 people could be just having a healthy debate. Words for me to think about.

Thank you

Love ybiC / Paul

THANKS FOR THE MESSAGE. I totally agree...particularly when a message goes on and on and only anger and bad feelings is the result. May the mind of Christ be the key in solving any problem...the MIND we all have received.

HIS BLESSINGS...Virginia

Email: varnke@roadrunner.com

Website: RITA

Dear D. Boyer,

Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

There's nothing wrong with a friendly, respectful debate. I think that's very helpful because it helps us to learn and grow. But there are two things that bother me about debating:

1. When it ceases to be either friendly or respectful, and

2. When it sows discord among the brethren. Proverbs 6:19

I'm especially cautious about sowing discord among the brethren. I am so afraid of joining debates because of that. That is one of the seven things that are an abomination to the Lord:

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Proverbs 6:16-19.

If the debatres stayed friendly and respectful, that's fine, but 9 times out of 10 it becomes heated to the point where people get offended then they want to drop out of the RITA fellowship altogether.

And that's what grieves my spirit.

It really is all about forgiveness and watching what we say. If we are hurt by someone, we should forgive, even if they are in the wrong. And guard our words. I am trying to do just this. I can't control whether others forgive me, or if they will say hurtful things, but I can control myself and do the best I can.

I have been hurt so much, but I am just doing my best to let it all go. I don't want to hold grudges. I don't want to always be offended. I am just too tired and weary. My wounds can't heal if I hold on to this toxic mess. And I certainly don't want to be the cause of someone else's pain. Will this petty stuff really matter in a year? If it isn't glorifying Him, then it isn't worth saying or doing.

The Lord has compassionately given me the spiritual eyes to see this now. PRAISE HIM!!!! I am so very grateful. I just think of the hate that was spewed at Him when He did NOTHING wrong. He is my idol, my strength and the greatest example for what I hope to attain....I'll never get to that point on my own, obviously. But my hope rests in Him changing me, purifying me and bringing me into alignment with His nature.

We honestly need to be thinking like a Body with the head of Christ, rather than holding on to hate, and tearing the Body limb from limb. Does it honestly matter who is right and who is wrong? There is only one truth I am sure of...that Jesus Christ is ALWAYS RIGHT, GOOD and TRUE....everyone else is a mixture of good and evil, including myself. I just want to focus on other people's good qualities as focusing on the bad causes me pain in my spirit.

Anyway..that is just how I see it. I am not holier than thou...for sure, but I really have been worn down in the last couple of months....I feel like I have been crushed and split apart...I see my total unworthiness and it is a blessing to me. How else can one get rid of pride than to be crushed....sifted as grain? If a person can't forgive and think they are completely right in any situation, then they aren't looking for the good in the other person. If Jesus loves the offender, then I am to love them as hard as that might be.

We just need to be giving the Body some slack and let bygones be bygones, the best we can....especially for piddly board debates....is it worth it to really grieve the Lord just to have the last say? I am not directing this post to anyone in particular, fwiw...it is just where I have been led recently in my ability to forgive others.

I think of all the people that are to be tortured and beheaded soon...starving, ravaged by war and pestilence and that shapes me up really quick.....does a small trespass against me now in the grand scheme of things matter even ONE iota in the long term? It is all about having the right perspective. Every one on this board is AMAZINGLY blessed as we have Christ, and we know what is to come and are therefore prepared. Not many on this Earth are as prepared as we, and are going to suffer great loss and pain.