Mercer (3 May 2010)
"The Rapture And The 10 Virgins"

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Jack Kelly again. Spend some time reading his stuff. Cleared up questions I had for a long time, such as the 10 virgins.
The 10 Virgins
After reading the “Left Behind” series I became convinced that there was a second chance to choose Christ after the Rapture and during the Tribulation period. But after reading the parable of the Ten Virgins, it sounds like the door will be shut to everyone after the bridegroom comes and takes those who are ready into the wedding banquet.


Q. After reading the “Left Behind” series I became convinced that there was a second chance for all people to choose Christ and have salvation through Him after the Rapture of the church and during the Tribulation period. But after reading the parable of the Ten Virgins, it sounds like the door will be shut to everyone after the bridegroom comes and takes those who are ready into the wedding banquet.

Am I confusing two different subjects, or are there conflicting interpretations of the ability of Gentiles to be saved post-rapture during the Tribulation period?

A. Yes, you’re confusing two different subjects. People left behind after the Rapture will have one more opportunity to be saved, by accepting the Lord’s pardon during the Tribulation period. They won’t be part of the Church but can still attain eternal life.

The parable of the 10 virgins isn’t about the time of the Rapture. It describes people who survive the Great Tribulation and are there at the 2nd Coming. The five with oil represent tribulation believers who are ushered live into the Kingdom. They help re-populate the Earth. The five without oil are non-believers who are cast into the outer darkness. My study on the 7 Things You Have To Know To Understand End Times Prophecy will give you more detail on this.

I really like Jack Kelly, but his theory on the ten virgins makes no sense to me~ who else would be waiting for the Bridegroom other than believers at the rapture? When Jesus comes the second time, it is not as the Bridegroom. I've read some other views on this parable on rita that seem more fitting, in my opinion.

Melanie, you're right: this view of the 10 virgins is incorrect. The reason I can say this so confidently, is that the Lord Jesus Himself showed me the foolish virgins. He looked at me, gestured at the people, and said: "These are the foolish virgins." And they were indeed Christians who were not ready for the Bridegroom's coming at the raputure. This is why it is so vital for EVERY ONE OF US to come before the Lord individually, asking Him to make us ready. He didn't say "PRAY TO BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY..." for no reason.

In His LOVE,
Charity

Amen Char!! I believe the Lord showed you, because you took the time to ask, and He is faithful!

Charity, I have been meaning to bring this up for you and wanted to share it! I believe what our Lord showed you was the court of the gentiles! This subject came up in my home through my hubby and then you brought up the vision/experience that you had not long afterward and I kept thinking that He was showing you the outer court of the temple that is reserved for the gentiles!

I still believe that all Christians need to get ready for the rapture as you say! Though I also believe that these foolish virgins are "bridesmaids", not bride and do pertain to the second coming.

The group that our Lord showed you may have included people that thought they were saved but actually were not!

I have had this on my mind for a few days and wanted to mention it to you!

Thanks, Melissa. But the Lord made it very clear that the people I saw were Christians who were not ready for the rapture. I even recongnized some people that I had known at Bible college.

Charity, Yesterday my pastor during his sermon told how when he graduated from bible college they would not let him speak at the commencement exercises when they normally would have. Apparently beforehand the administrator at the college wanted to know how my pastor was going to help support the college now that he was graduated. My pastor asked this man to show him in the bible where it said he was to do this!

My pastor is 100% into missionary work! He basically got snubbed by his college and I think he is huge in the kingdom of God!

Wondering if these people you went to college with were really saved! I think there are a lot of people in high places in the church right now that probably are not!

The core truth the church should be teaching is Christ's atoning death on the cross that paid for our sins. If those people you knew in college won't accept this then they are still trying to pay for their own sins and probably are not saved.

Just some stuff to consider.

Melissa, do you think that what the Lord showed Charity is from Him or from the adversary? Because the Lord told Charity she was looking at Christians. You must choose. Is Charity deceived, or was she really looking at Christians?

There is no way to skirt around this. Not trying to cause you hurt, just want you to understand that the Lord told her He was showing her Christians, not unsaved people.

Carlee, I was not there so I cannot judge, but I have already said that I believe He was showing her the outer temple court reseved for the gentiles.

Any vision does need to line up with scripture for a correct interpretation or to be from our Lord!

Any teaching/vision that says that Christians are going to miss the rapture does not line up with the Word of God, in my opinon.

God bless you Carlee!

I have to add a note on the outer court of the temple.

The outer court of the temple is a place for the unsaved only! When Jesus died on the cross the curtain inside the temple split from top to bottom allowing access to the Holy of Holy's through Jesus. This is something that all Christians now have access to because of Jesus' death on the cross.

We are suppose to test the spirits and judge our dreams and visions by the revealed and written Word of God.

Matthew 25

1`Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom;

2and five of them were prudent, and five foolish;

3they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil;

4and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps.

5`And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping,

6and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him.

7`Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps,

8and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;

9and the prudent answered, saying -- Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves.

10`And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut;

11and afterwards come also do the rest of the virgins, saying, Sir, sir, open to us;

12and he answering said, Verily I say to you, I have not known you.

In verse 12, it is clear that the bridegroom NEVER knew the 5 unwise virgins. If Gods Word can not lie and does not match what our human understanding of our dreams and visions are, then we need to readjust our evaluation of its meaning.

Seems to me that the 10 VIRGINS in Mt 25 do not represent the Bride of Christ. The KEY to understanding the symbols in this PARABLE is to understand the meaning of the LAMPS that each of the virgins have.

Most people want to center in only on the symbol of the oil as representing the Holy Spirit and not look at what the lamps represent.

Oil lamps give off light when lite. In this parable 5 virgins had the MEANS for light and 5 did not.

The "light of the World" is Jesus and the Gospel of Good News He represents. The 5 wise virgins had received that LIGHT already, but the 5 unwise NEVER had received it, that is why the parable ends with the statement that the bridegroom NEVER knew the 5 unwise virgins.

Oh, one more thing, Jesus never calls His bride foolish. He calls us friends.

The WORD is a lamp unto my feet and a LIGHT unto my path. Blessed by the name of the Lord.

Tom

Melissa, this makes me very sad, because I know Charity hears from the Lord and I believe she would be able to recognize the adversary if he were trying to trick her. Please reconsider. Charity is so precious to the Lord and it is hard and painful for her to share what the Lord gives her because of unbelief.

All Christians are not in the Holy of Holies because they are spending time in Egypt/the outer court because of sin. I believe the scripture speaks often of this. It is my heart's prayer that you will come to understand this through revelation from the Jesus Himself!

Carlee, Don't be sad! Jesus has already showed me this!

Charity is very loved of our Lord! I am only trying to give her input on the interpretation, I am not saying this did not occur or questioning if it was from our Lord!

Melissa, I am still sad because I don't think you have the truth of God behind your belief. Charity did not have a chance to interpret. She was TOLD by the Lord that she was looking at Christians.

Who has revelation from Jesus and who has revelation from man? I believe we don't have long to find out!!The Lord is about to come and do a mighty work.

“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."

Should be clear from the opening words that we are talking about Christians ("virgins"). Virgin symbolizes one who is pure. Only those who have been washed clean in the blood of the Lamb are considered pure by God's standards~ not unbelievers.

Furthermore, only Christians are told to look for the coming of the Bridegroom, and are (or should) be waiting expectantly for His return. What unbeliever do you know who is watching for Jesus as their Bridegroom?

Carlee, I won't defend myself, but I will defend God's Word! Love you all in Christ!

Praise God, Melissa, this is my intent as well! I want to speak His truth, but I leave it up to Him to set things right! And He soon will! Only His spirit can reveal His truth to all, but they must be willing to listen.

All glory to His name!

The Lord just gave me this verse:

Mark 16:14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.

still sad

Hi y'all, I just got back from an outing with my fam.

I have a few things to say:

I know it was Jesus Himself who showed me the foolish virgins. It was my first and only "visitation" from Jesus, after I had gone to bed praying (begging) God to show me the truth of this matter.

That night, He brought me through the veil (into the Kingdom of Heaven). I was really with Him. I touched Him, I gazed upon Him, and He taught me many things (which I can't remember, but I believe they were deposited into my spirit, not
meant to be remembered at this time).

He then told me He had something important to show me.

He took me outside the gates of the Kingdom, where I saw many sad and angry people in a hot, desolate desert-type-setting. Those that I recognized had been genuine, "on-fire" Christians when had I known them, but I haven't seen them for years. So they must have become "lukewarm" in recent years, to whom God says, "...because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth."

Jesus said, "These are the foolish virgins." I'm not offering an interpretation; this is just what He said.

I believe He showed me these things so I would know how important it is to warn people of the NECESSITY of obedience. We cannot make ourselves ready, but we must be wiling to submit to His Spirit so that HE CAN MAKE US READY.

Whether you receive this truth or not is between you and the Lord.

I love you all very much!!!

I was thinking how does the thief on the cross fit in as a member of Christ's Body, the church soon to be raptured.

While reading your experience with Jesus you shared here in your above reply, Charity . . it struck me that though it was just moments before the thief cried out to Jesus to remember him, and then died, he was not lukewarm, huh, his heart believed with a fervency, even rebuking the lost thief's rejection of the Lord and Savior . . and that's what Jesus looks for in the believer . .

That's right, Donna. Reminds me of the dream TeaRose shared about the houses!

Char, here's something that's confusing me. When Jesus showed you the Christians that were outside the gate, how did they get there? Were they raptured too, but then just weren't allowed into the gate? I wonder - were they included in the rapture and all excited, only to be left outside? Or is this after the tribulation - in which case, why wouldn't they be in hell?

If you don't know, don't worry about it. I was just curious if you got any indication about that.

Exactly, Donna!!! That thief surely wasn't lukewarm....plus Jesus knew His heart since He is God.

Diane, He didn't explain it to me. But I knew it had to do with this portion of the parable:

Matthew 25:10-13

And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'

But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

If you want to know my thoughts, I think that the hot desert represented the spiritual wilderness they will find themselves in during the tribulation. I also saw fires here and there throughout the desert, which may represent the fires of testing they will need to go through, in order to be purified.

I've got a much more colorful belief. There are three groups...the Bride, and then two groups of Bridesmaids of which five are excluded from the wedding reception.

The Bride is even a step above the two groups of virgins....first she is NOT asleep EVER since she knew He was coming. She has also totally submitted to Him as a good wife should....NOTHING is above Him...no idols whatsoever. The wise virgins are born-again Spirit-filled Christians who love the Lord, but are still very much involved in this world. The five unwise are Christians who are not very full of the Holy Spirit and only became end times watchers when the Bride was taken...therefore they have had less time to fill their lamps with the Holy Spirit. The fact that the parable talks about Him coming at midnight shows me that the tribulation has already set in...the Bride is removed before the midnight hour.

The marriage takes place before the wedding reception by Jewish tradition right? And the Bride is with the Groom and the marriage is consummated for seven days in His Father's house prior to the wedding reception.

So I say there are three groups...just like there are three areas in the Holy Temple....the outer court, the inner court and the Holy of Holies. Each area pares down who is eligible to enter....

outer court....all Christians (those who accept Jesus as Savior) (all Jewish tribes)...

inner court (tribe of Levi only) Born-again obedient Christians who have washed in the brass laver (water of the Word) and have laid down as a living sacrifice on the altar before entering into the inner court...this equals the five wise virgins...

the Holy of Holies where only the High Priest can enter...or the Bride who has gone past the veil and sees Him as He really is.

We only begin to really know the Lord's nature as we submit more and more of our lives to Him....so it is this submission that thins that veil and allows us to TRULY KNOW Him and become eligible to become the Bride. I know the veil was rent in two thanks to Jesus'sacrifice on the cross, but I think it is a two-way thing....He needs to know us and WE need to know Him. I am not entertaining a works based theology....but I do believe your place in heaven and role in end-times is based on your personal relationship with the Lord and how far along in the sanctification process you are.

I really believe that it is all about sanctification and sanctification only occurs as a person allows the Lord to do HIS work in them as no one can do it on their own....and we have to SUBMIT in order for sanctification to occur....so if people want to call that works...well ...I guess go ahead....these are the works that won't be burned up in the fire because they are HIS works, not ours.

Eve was taken from a rib (small portion) from the first Adam's body....likewise Christ's Bride will be taken from a small portion of His Body which is close to His heart (like the rib).

We are only worthy of Him if we pick up our cross and follow Him DAILY (in other words...do NOT backslide each day...be in constant repentance and submission)....AND if we put NOTHING above Him (including mother, father, son or daughter).

Anyway..I am sure this isn't popular thinking.....but then that is ok...this is what the Lord has shown me. I know my job is to keep my eye on the prize of the high calling whether I attain it or not. I know that the only way to please Him is to obey His commandments. I do believe the Lord calls us for particular purposes in His own time.....and also reveals things as we ask Him to AND according to His ultimate purpose for us. So debating revelations seems a bit pointless to me these days as He has only shown me what He has shown me and it is up to me to keep taking it back to Him for refining and keep scouring His Word for the Truth . That is all any of us can do....get the truth from the source.

So Char, do you think that those in the wilderness will still have a chance to be saved by going through the Trib. and losing their life? If so, that is semi-encouraging I think!

Dee, I like your theory. I hope it's correct!

Tom, as usual you are very balanced, knowledgable and clear in your teaching. Thanks for the clarity.

I was happy to have found this piece about Jack Kelly's teaching this morning and posted it because there is so much confusion and mis-information out there about the 10 virgins parable. I just got home from work and see it has turned into another contested thread so I am now very sorry I posted it.

Carlee, I don't like your tone in your replies to Melissa. Whether you are right or wrong you were very sharp and judgmental and that didn't set well with me at all. Melissa was trying to present her opinion in a very courteous and loving way and in the process was attacked and her words twisted. That was distressing to me and not very nice.

I love you Charity, I undertand how much you love the Lord and respect your opinion; however, I have my own and I do agree with Jack Kelly. In regard to anyone with a different opinion, love you but lets agree to disagree and move on. If this thread becomes any more contentious than it already has I request that the mods remove it.

Yeah..me too..LOL. I can't take credit for the theory though...I am sure I read it somewhere . Though I cannot begin to tell you where..LOL..my mind is a great big melting pot of theories and information.

I know the night before I got married I didn't sleep a WINK!!! LOL...so what is the deal with all these virgins falling asleep?? snort! I never understood that part.

Oh...and fwiw, Melissa, I know you have a heart after the Lord . As do all who are on this thread or we wouldn't be here. Debating who the virgins are...well...theoretically it is interesting...but nothing to get all upset over.

Love ya all.

Not wishing to debate here, the following is posted in an effort look at all of the truth.

All true believers are the Body of Christ - no? I don't believe the Bible teaches that Jesus is going to divide or mutilate His body; rather Paul teaches that all parts of the body are needed, and that even those parts of the body which need to be covered are to be honored (1 Cor. 12:12-26). Those foolish virgins didn't have the Light of the World (Christ) in them when he came for His Bride (see Tom's earlier post), which is why they weren't there when He arrived, and why He didn't recognize them when they finally showed up. If He loves His Body enough to have died for her, I can't believe He will cut out a piece of it i.e. leave some so-called "Christians" behind to be purified in the Tribulation. His blood sacrifice (1 John 1:7)- nothing else- "finished"/PAID IN FULL the debt of any and all who acknowledge their need for cleansing and forgiveness.

Either one has Christ in one or one doesn't. The foolish virgins didn't have the true light of the world which cannot be extinguished/run out. Why would one professing Christ have/rely on anything other than Christ to light his/her way?
(see John 3:20).

Those who have the light of the world to light their path are not to be left in the darkness.

Post Script: So much confusion probably hinges upon how we define our terms ("virgins", "Christians") and whether we are properly understanding the context of the scripture passages

Yes, Diane, of course they will have a chance to repent and be saved! That is the grace of our God. He who overcomes will be clothed in white, and his name will not be blotted out of the Book of life!

Texas Sue, I love you, too-- very much. But what I have written is not my opinion. I've sharing what Jesus told me. I would have rather keep such an incredible experience to myself, but I felt that He wanted me to expose the truth for whoever would listen: that the rapture is for the bride who has made herself ready, with a single-eyed devotion to Christ. Sorry to say that the whole church is not ready to meet the bridegroom.

Mods, PLEASE DON'T delete this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I would agree with locking it, as contention is CERTAINLY not my intention.

You know...New Creation...not debating either but something you wrote made me go...hmmmmm.....and then I started thinking...LOL...so tell me what you think :)

Christ's own body was mutilated and the Father loved Him...but it was done for 'the Body's' own good....salvation. To mutilate His Body may in fact be done for its own good as in heaven we will be whole as the Body....earth is just temporary and a place to refine us....eternal salvation (and eternal rewards...basically getting to sit closer to Him in heaven is the only reward worth working for IMO) and glorifying Him are the only things that matter.

We should have joy in our sufferings as it allows us to partake of the cup that Christ drank from AND it glorifies Him when we take it upon ourselves exhibiting the mind of Christ. Not to say we shouldn't long to go in the rapture, but isn't it more about longing to be with Him, rather than not being stuck here?

Here is an interesting concept:

'to be absent from THE BODY, is to be present with the Lord'

yep..this means absent from our own physical body so our spirit is with the Lord.........but it could also mean a division in the Body too...that some will be ABSENT from THE BODY and will therefore be PRESENT WITH the Lord.

This just occurred to me...so just had to share.

Not saying I am right...in all honesty, I'd much rather the Body not be divided too with all being raptured, but from a divine perspective perhaps we can't see the whole big picture and what is best for us for eternity is for some of us to stay here and suffer a little while to GLORIFY Him as we take on the mind of Christ.

Oooo....Just thought of something else.....What would Christ do? Would He CHOOSE to be left behind? or would He have chosen to go be with the Father in heaven? Aren't we supposed to emulate Christ (even in our weakness)?

Anyway..you have me thinkin' New Creation

Exactly!!!

I think it's best to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Here is another reference to Christians who are being presented to Christ (the Bridegroom) as virgins:

I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 2 Corinthian 11:2

Is there more than one God? The Jesus that died for me, that I know is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to Him. He said that those who come to Him He will in wise cast out. He said on the cross concerning my salvation and safety - "IT IS FINISHED". He said He has gone to prepare a place for me and is coming again to take me to Himself that where He is I will be.

When God talks about the believer suffering it is usually referring to the suffering caused by satan and his minions through people that have given themselves over to evil. God is not the one who causes us to suffer. Jesus died IN OUR PLACE.

Regarding those that die in the Lord being separated from their bodies, the idea that this is a mutilation of the body of Christ is really out there. From the moment that we accept Jesus into our hearts, our spirits are born anew - we actually are new creations - and our spirits are connected with God by the Holy Spirit living in us. This is how we are able to be seated in heavnely places while our bodies are still on the earth. Whether in the body or out of the body we are still one with Jesus and connected to Him eternally. NO SEPARATION FROM GOD- only separation from the physical body.

Texas, it's my belief that the rapture isn't synonymous with eternal salvation. I believe the Holy Spirit will yet be on the earth during the tribulation, and He will not leave His people without a Comforter. I think this is all I'll say here. Love you~

Oh, one more thing...His people aren't destined for wrath, so I believe they will only go through the first half of the trib-- the hour of testing.

Sorry to say, I love you all, but-

It looks like I am going to hell!!!!!

Reason-

I can never make myself worthy enough to be either his bride or holy. I am the worst of sinners, a filthy rag. From birth unto death.

It is by what he has done, not me that I am saved. Saved because I decided to believe in him. He loved me first. I come to the foot of the cross as the sinner that I am. I then lift my head up in praise, because of his beautiful grace shown unto me.

I love you all, but I have to tell you where I stand regarding this matter.

If Christians are left behind, what happens to the Holy Spirit? It cannot leave with the bride, but stay on the earth.

If that is the case, if the Holy Spirit leaves while Christians stay on the earth, well there goes any pre-trib theories. How can people whom are born again, not have the Holy Spirit dwell inside them during a time of tribulation. Because this is what is been said here. The Holy Spirit will either stay or go. My views are that it goes with the church, the bride.

Is there some thing I am not seeing here?

Love ybiC / Paul

Hi Paul, I love you too. You said:

"I can never make myself worthy enough to be either his bride or holy. I am the worst of sinners, a filthy rag. From birth unto death."


Never have I even hinted that we can make ourselves worthy. Only He can do that. All we need to do is submit to His Spirit. Believe it or not, there are Christians who have not submitted themselves fully to God; they still want to cling to things of the world. God is not coming for a harlot-bride.

James 4:4-8

You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?

But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."

Submit therefore to God Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Paul,
Just thinking online here...the Holy Spirit came down when Christ ascended - to help church age believers. The Jews did not orig have the help of the Holy Spirit like we do.

I'm thinking that when the church leaves (pre-tribulation) the Holy Spirit goes with it. That's one of the reasons the angels will be flying the skies and telling people to repent. The 144,000 will be witnessing also, in addition to the two witnesses.

Just a thought

Hi Char,

Sis sorry I did not mean that to come across as if you had said that.

What I was trying to point out is that-
Paul(me) is a sinner. With my lips I give praises to my king, but with my nature I do the opposite. I am a sinner. I come before him and repent, to forgive me.

It may be the way I was taught, but I always have thought of the bride been the whole church.

Lets say we have this beautiful dear old lady. That loves the Lord with all her heart and soul. Helps others in love. This old lady is traditional and does not look for Christs return as we do, she just goes about doing her Fathers work.

Then the rapture happens

Does she now stay behind because she was not one of them that longed for his appearing?

My views are that she is the bride as well.

Love you Char, in no way am I attacking you Sis. Like I said, what am I not seeing here? Have I missed something. I ask in Love Sis

Love ybiC / Paul

Paul, I will join you at the Filthy Rags Club. I am trusting Jesus to do the clean-up because it is not in me to do what is necessary to make me ready for heaven.

THANK YOU JESUS FOR BEING THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE END and ALL THAT WE NEED.

Can I join you guys in the filthy rags club? The fact is, nobody is worthy by their own righteousness. All we can do is submit ourselves to God and LET HIM clean us up!!! It's sad that so many would rather wallow in the mud of the world and depend on the false assuption that God will clean them up after He takes them to Heaven.

Paul,

I agree. Watcher's receive a crown but being a watcher is not a requirement for salvation or the rapture.

My .02

Sue, I didn't mean to suggest the Lord would take pleasure in mutilating His Body....that is a poor choice of words and I continued with them since New Creation used them. I didn't say I was right....I was just pondering.


Paul, none of us are worthy...we are just to pray we are accounted worthy. I think of Issac....he willingly laid his life down at the command of his father just as Jesus did. We are to be living sacrifices too, so if we are left behind we must trust that He knows what He is doing in leaving us behind. It is His call on what is going to happen. It is our duty to just have faith that no matter what happens He is going to use it for our good.

And Paul...don't be assuming anything...the Lord determines the what, why, how and when...I don't think any of us really know how it is all going to play out, nor who is in which category..LOL Only He knows as He has written the playbook.

I've asked for the director's cut, but He isn't giving it to me..LOLOL

Paul, I really believe that everyone who loves the Lord with their whole heart (and doesn't intentionally keep a part reserved for the world) is the bride of Christ. Here's how He told it to me a while back:

"My Bride consists of those who delight in Me alone and have no other lovers (nothing of the world that they love & cling to) besides Me. She seeks My face wholeheartedly and faithfully follows after Me."

Hope this helps. I detect a very humble and beautiful heart in you, Paul.
I Love you, brother!
~Char

Well I am not in the filthy rag's club...I am in the NAKED club.....how much worse is THAT!!! I am not kidding...lots of me-being-naked dreams..LOL.

No worries Char, plently of room in this rag bag, lol

Where I have thought about these issues, is when the Lord speaks about spitting out the lukewarm.

Now what does this mean?
The saved Christians, or the ones that never believed to begin with but pretended too?

As Tom put it, to believe in Christ is about having a realationship with him.

My thoughts

Love ybiC / Paul

Dee / Sue / Charity / Cheryl,

I just love how we can all discuss openly in love with no confrontation. It is healthy to be able to do this. Thank you Sisters.

Dee my dear Sis, I laughed at your replies, you are too cute sis. You have a great sense of humor, you should be an Aussie. Me, to tell you the truth, I dont know anything. That is why I am a sheep.... Baaarrrrr LOL.

I only know one little thing, and that is I love Jesus. I pray for him to reveal my sins so I may grow in him. To trust him.

Love ya Sisters / ybiC Paul

Char, you said, "But what I have written is not my opinion. I've sharing what Jesus told me. I would have rather keep such an incredible experience to myself, but I felt that He wanted me to expose the truth for whoever would listen: that the rapture is for the bride who has made herself ready, with a single-eyed devotion to Christ. Sorry to say that the whole church is not ready to meet the bridegroom."

While it is true that all the bride will not be watching and ready, that does not mean they will be left behind. I do not doubt for a moment what you heard or saw in the dream. However, your statements as to what it means does not pass the test of testing it with the statements of Jesus Christ in scripture.

John chapter 10

v10 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

V15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father and I lay down My life for the sheep.

v27 My sheep hear My voice, and I KNOW them and they follow Me.

V28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

v29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them our of My Fathers hand.

John Chapter 17

V1 Father, the hour has come, Glorify Your Son that Your Son also may glorify You

v2 as You have given Him authority over ALL FLESH that He should give ETERNAL life to as many as You have given Him.

v3 and this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

V6 I have revealed Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world..

V9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours

V20 I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word.

Jesus can not say out of one side of His mouth that His sheep hear His voice and follow Him and that He will lose none of them and out the other side of His mouth say that some of His sheep don't follow Him and will have to be purified by the fires of the Tribulation in order to be justified.

This is not a matter of which one of us on RITA is right or wrong. We are all wrong from time to time. However,

this is a matter of using the STANDARD of the Holy Word of God as our final judge of truth. So, when Jesus told you that "these are the 5 unwise virgins", He could NOT have been referring to believers who are His sheep. Seems clear to me. I guess that you could assume a lot of things about who the people were in your dream, but for sure they could not be bought and paid in blood for born again believers. Why? Jesus said so.

God is not angry at you and neither am I. You are much loved and appreciated by all of RITA. Wish I could give you a big bear hug and tell you how special you are to me.

Tom

I think after the rapture, the Holy Spirit will stay on the earth. After all, we don't need the Holy Spirit in heaven because we will be with Jesus and the Father. The people who have died and are in heaven now don't have the Holy Spirit because He is here on the earth, so why would He come back up with us?

When Jesse Duplantis had his trip to heaven, he asked Jesus where the Holy Spirit was, and He said the Holy Spirit was on earth. Jesse said he was embarrassed that he had asked that question after he thought about it.

Anyway, just a thought. I think the Holy Spirit is on earth to stay as He came down when Jesus ascended. The Holy Spirit will probably be instrumental in recreating the earth for the Millennium.

Dear Tom, thanks for your love for me! I am of course in agreement with those Scriptures! I believe He will lose NOT ONE of His sheep. He is the perfect Shepherd, amen! Those who must go through the hour of testing are His (rebellious) sheep who didn't repent. The Comforter will be with them. Anyway, of course I still have many questions, but I am certain that lukewarm Christians will not be going in the rapture. So it's my desire, out of my love for Christ and His people, to urge everybody to just make sure their hearts belong to Him alone.

Love you, brother!

Texas Sue, I didn't use a sharp tone of voice with Melissa. We just don't agree and I am still sad. I know her heart loves the Lord. Please don't accuse me of being sharp. I know you don't like me much, and that is okay, because the message that the Lord gave me is more important than being liked. But it is imperative to hear the voice of the Lord right now. He wants us to submit to His sanctification. It is foremost on His mind, because He tells me so, and I am wanting to warn all who would listen.

It truly breaks my heart when people/Christians go against what the Lord is doing. That is how I felt about Charity's vision--some do not believe it is from the Lord.

Can it be when we desire to follow the Light that our faith in Jesus is not in Word only, but also in deed, as Jesus would desire us to do. If we fall into sin, it IS imperative that we run to Jesus and ask His forgiveness, and turn from it.

No christian can stay in sin and say along the way, "it's cool, cuz I received Jesus, and hell and darkness has no hold on me" . . .

Who here doubts Christians are expected to grow, from darkness, deeper in the Light of Christ . . this seems so fundamental, doesn't it . . As Paul states, Grace makes no way an excuse to sin, just the opposite. .

Hey guys, you all have so many wonderful questions here..

Can I join.... :))

Charity is right.. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit showed to me in 1991 while reading the Bible again after he climbed inside of me.. (For those that have read my stuff before) by fasting and praying

1) The rapture... Read the Revelation of the 7 Churches.. Look at 6 of them.. What does Jesus tell them all except Philidephia.. Get right with me or else.

2) After the rapture, lot of foolish are left behind, (call them what you want) there will be more people during this first 3 1/2 years that excepts Jesus, and there's going to be lot of people killed during these first 3 1/2 years also. These people are the "FOOLISH" whatever you want to call them.. (THIS IS NOT THE WRATH PERIOD) This is the "Great Tribulation"

Read Rev. 7:9 and finish reading it carefully and look at every word.. I have read that MANY, MANY timesm and DID NOT notice this until the Holy Spirit showed this to me in 1991.. Verse 16.. And the SUN will not shine on them anymore.. This group will stay up in Heaven, this group will not come back down with Jesus to rule and reign during those 1000 years. This group are not those "BEHEADED" in the last 3 1/2 years, because Rev. 20:4 shows that the "beheaded" group will be resurrected and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years.

Diane, this is a great question dear sister..

I'm not sure what Charity's vision pretained to, but if it's as I think it was in reference to, I hope I can point you to the scripture that the Holy Spirit showed me in 1975-76 roughly.

Rev.20:14 ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;
15 and without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the *****mongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. <- Notice, here's the exceptions which is being shown during the NEW or Remade Earth time.. So we are not talking about sin being present but those FOOLISH that made it ...

Remember the Bible states if you just call upon the name of Jesus you shall be saved.. I hope who reads this understand that Jesus has done everything possible so we humans can escape HELL.. Unfortunately, there's so many "Jesus save me" then tomorrow is another typical day in their life..

Ok,, everyone has their own thoughts on scripture.. Here's how the Holy Spirit popped me as I read this way back then as I mentioned..

Only those blood bought by Jesus, (the faithful) will be able to enter into the New Jerusalem. There's going to be a lot of people that will not have the privilege to enter into the New Jerusalem. This is during the Eternity people.. NO SIN NOW..

I'm thinking that this is what Charity was shown which sounds like the same thing I was shown in 1975-76..


LOL... I just read down a few more posts...

Paul and T/Sue... Charity isn't saying what you guys are insinuating.. You have seen people go to the alter then the next day, week, you see how are they living their life.. Not judging anyone, just stating facts of what I have seen down thru the years.

Would you say that person is "WISE" or "FOOLISH".. Is that person lost... No, but will that person be caught up at the rapture..

I do not believe he/she would because Jesus stated to the 6 of the 7 Churches to repent and get right before him or the tribulation.


Dee, dear sister... I'm not going to write to much to keep this short as possible.. I love your analogy and it goes along with Revelation 4:1 and Rev. 7:9.. These are the two groups.. the 2nd group is taken up during the middle of the 7 years, right after the AC goes into the temple.. (Rev.6:16) AND I never mentioned this before, but what you stated is exactly correct.. Those taken up in the rapture the Bride will be a "SPECIAL" group for Jesus..

Those others will be saved but as Charity's post has revealed and what was shown to me in 1975-76, those will not have what we will.. This is in Eternity, not just for the 1000 years..

All I can say is this.... If anyone does not understand this, don't worry about it. It has nothing to do with Your Salvation.. Your and my salvation is by the shed Blood of Jesus covering our sins. Our LOVE for Him. Yes, he has done it all for us, and we can't add one thing except believe that God raised Jesus from the dead.

(Rom.10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.)

The last point that I will make as many times before.. Fellowship with Jesus continuely...

Luke 21:38 Watch you therefore, and pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I have read on down futher,,

Tom, Charity is not saying anything contrary to what you are bother.. What she is stating is that their are Christians that are not abiding in Jesus.. I know where you are coming from on your thoughts.. And you are correct... True Christians are saved, blood bought, we do NOT add a thing, Jesus has done it all, etc. BUT even Jesus stated clearly in Revelation on the 6 of the 7 Churches,, shape up or you'll be sorry..

And Diane again...

On the Holy Spirit after the rapture, He will work as he did before the Pentacost started..


This is a good thread guys.. I have enjoyed it very much..

God bless....


Joseph

Right on, Donna! Thanks, RJ, for contributing your thoughts and understanding!

I just popped on here to share an important Bible passage. This is talking to ALL believers, so please read it carefully! Love, Char

HEBREWS 3:6-15 (NLT)

6 But Christ, as the Son, is in charge of God’s entire house. And we are God’s house, IF we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ.

7 That is why the Holy Spirit says,

“Today when you hear his voice,
8 don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled,
when they tested me in the wilderness.

9 There your ancestors tested and tried my patience,
even though they saw my miracles for forty years.

10 So I was angry with them, and I said,
‘Their hearts always turn away from me.
They refuse to do what I tell them.’

11 So in my anger I took an oath:
‘They will never enter my place of rest.’”

12 BE CAREFUL THEN, DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God.

13 YOU MUST WARN EACH OTHER EVERY DAY, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.

14 For IF WE ARE FAITHFUL TO THE END, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.

15 Remember what it says:

“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled.”

Rita...

This is such a fascinating read. I'm actually not going to get involved in this discussion. All scripture is correct but subject to interpretaion. Men and ladys for that matter may disagree, but do you realize what this thread has actually become???

It's really the old discussion on "Once saved, always saved". That's a losing battle in the body of Christ.
I realize that we're coming at it from another angle, but that is what we are discussing!!!

Rita...we are just not going to agree on this, and that is what Texas Sue said earlier. "We are going to have to agree to disagree"! Well put dear sis!

This really has been a good read though!

Ok...you can all laugh at me, but how do you get those smiley faces to get in the spot you want??? What am I doing wrong. They just stay there!

Love you all!!!
YBIC
Steve

Great post, Charity.. I believe that stated it very plainly quit well....


Joseph

Hi Steve, nursing Arabel here...

I really don't think this is an OSAS discussion...well, at least not on my end of things. Because I do not believe that the rapture equals eternal salvation!!!

...but I know what you and T/Sue are saying, and you're right. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Just so long as everybody out there who's reading this knows that being ready DOES matter. Being ready isn't about doing works; it's about submitting so that HE CAN DO THE WORK to make you ready. And if you're not ready, you not going in the first rapture. You'll have to catch the 2nd bus out.

Love ya, Steve, and thanks for the reminder that discussing OSAS is totally a losing battle. Agreed. I just love people and want them to be ready to meet the Bridegroom who is coming in NOT MANY DAYS HENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That should have been Rev. 22..

I'll finally found another verse that went along with that..

Rev.21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles, neither whatever works abomination, or makes a lie:
but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev.22:14 Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
15 Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Sorry about that guys...


Joseph

Charity...

No it's not exactly, but the arguements, if you go back and read them, they are based upon that same premise.

I wasn't even thinking of OSAS at all. About 2/3 of the way through I realized that everyone's thought on this subject parallels there thoughts on OSAS.

Examples:

The thinking of the thief on the cross..OSAS

Whether the whole church is raptured or just the bride..OSAS

Why you may ask! Because if you believe OSAS, the entire church are believing Christians and those that are the Laodecian church aren't saved. If one doesn't believe that, then the bride or Philadelphia church gets raptured but others that are spotty with the world don't. Again, if you do the entire church gets raptured.

I spotted a couple of others but late at night or early morning here now, I can't remember. That's old age creeping in.

Anyway...everyone that believes one way or the other is ultimately coming back to their roots in the OSAS aguements. That's why people are going to have to walk away from this one.

I realize that it didn't start out that way, but it has turned into that.

Hope this helps.

YBIC
Steve

Today I reflected on what I wrote and what everyone else has been writing and talking about for so long with regards to Charity’s post.

I will use the K.I.S.S method (point form) here (Kiss= keep it simple stupid) LOL

This whole argument is NOT about salvation or works (so forget about this)

To coin what Tom has said, it is about your relationship with Christ

Who is the Bride?

We know that, “The church”

What is the bride before she gets married “The Virgins”

O.K

What 2x groups of Virgins do we have?

The wise and the foolish

So in affect we have the church (the 2x groups of virgins)

Both groups of virgins are awaiting the bride grooms arrival

Both are saved, works has not been talked about either, and will not.

One group is totally in love with the groom. Can’t stop thinking about him, can’t stop praising him, wants to abide in his will out of love, and not works

The other group (still saved). Their love has grown a little cold. Life and its traps have lured them into the world. They slowly grow tired and fall asleep. They still believe, but have been distracted. The Luke warm Christians, the Sunday Christians etc.

O.k

Now the first group encompasses all who watch for his return and the ones that just go about the Fathers business. Both the watching and the others are still totally in love with him.

The rapture takes place!!!!!!!!!!!

The bride groom takes with him his wise virgins

The others remain, locked out of what?
The wedding

So what happens to the foolish virgins?
Simple
For the Father will never lose one that he has claimed as his own

The foolish virgins (or the lukewarm church), has just had the biggest wake up call imaginable. The father has promised that he would not let one go. Why?

Because they are still his

But they have to endure the hard times

Both groups are saved
Works have not been mentioned

It is about your relationship with Jesus
Its is totally about your heart, between you and the Lord.
Nothing about works
Nothing about salvation, because you are already saved

So in the end the two groups of virgins represent the church, in its different states of love for the bridegroom. It has nothing to do with the unsaved; it is totally about the church.

Charity, is this what you mean to get across to everyone here?

Love ybiC / Paul

Paul, that couldn't be any clearer, brother...

God bless...


Joseph