Here's the question on this issue that I struggle with on this topic. We are told in the Bible to "pray to be accounted worthy to escape the testing coming on the whole earth". My thing is this. It boils down to a simple question. Is being raptured the same as being saved. I want to think it is, however I've never seen a scripture that gives any direction on this question. Perhaps God will throw a Christian into the tribulation knowing that that person can still have salvation through martyrdom. Perhaps some of us need to get off of the fencepost so to speak and show God if they really do love Him. If any of you wonderful ritans have any idea about this I'd love you have ur input here. In Christ.

My prayer to be worthy

"Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

Jon, the fact that there is fear present is proof enough that thought is not of God. "God has not given us a spirit of fear". A spirit - a demon whispering "what if you're not good enough, then don't you think that God will punish you...."

Jesus said that all the Father had given Him will come to Him and that those who come to Him He will not cast out. Why would He leave one born again son of God behind? That is not God's character. Why would God save your soul when you give it to Him and then leave you behind? If you are saved, Jesus has promised in John 14 that He will come again and RECEIVE YOU unto Himself that where He is you may be also.

One more word on the security of the believer. Once a child is born it cannot be un-born. When you are born again, the dna of the Father, of God Himself is in your new spirit - you become a new creature or creation. Yes, rapture and salvation go together.

Why would God take my pets in the rapture but not a human? dont get me wrong I am soo thankful that God will take my dogs with me....but I can not see Him doing that before taking his child...

Amen TS, great post!

Excellent point Joyful Susan. Why would God take up our pets and not us?

According to Psalm 8 David said, "What is man that you are mindful of Him and the son of man that You visit him? You have made him a little lower than Elohim and You have crowned him with glory and honor".

Why would God leave behind the crowning glory of His creation - men and women made in His own image.

Hi Jon, I think this will be my only post on this thread. I pray that whoever needs to, will see the truth.

First of all, I believe that going in the FIRST rapture is NOT synonymous with salvation. The first rapture is for those who have accepted His call to become His bride. It's all about the heart. God is the only judge of the heart.

It's not about elitism or "God playing favorites". And it's NOT about works or making oneself worthy (as that is impossible)! A soft, moldable, humble, teachable, lovable heart has EVERYTHING to do with it.

"Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts..." (Heb. 3:7)

"Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God." (Heb. 3:12-13)

That said, I will reiterate my experience with Jesus. I am doing this out of LOVE for Christ and a for His people.

During the night between April 7-8, Jesus Himself brought me through the veil (into the Kingdom of Heaven). I was really with Him. I touched Him, I gazed upon Him, and He taught me many things as we went here and there together. He then told me He had something important to show me.

He took me through a door so that we were outside of the Kingdom, where I saw many sad and angry people in a hot, desolate desert-type-setting. Those that I recognized had been genuine, "on-fire" Christians when had I known them, but I haven't seen them for years.

(My thought is: they must have become "lukewarm" in recent years, to whom God says, "...because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.")

Jesus looked at me, gestured at the people, and said, "These are the foolish virgins."

I knew it had to do with this portion of the parable:

Matthew 25:10-13

And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'

But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.


My thought is that the hot desert represents the spiritual wilderness they will find themselves in during the tribulation. I also saw fires here and there throughout the desert, which may represent the fires of testing they will need to go through, in order to be purified. But God will not leave them without a comforter; He will be with them and bring them through to the glorious end.

I believe He showed me these things so I would know how important it is to warn people of the NECESSITY of submitting to His Spirit so that HE CAN MAKE US READY to be His bride.

Whether you receive this truth or not is between you and the Lord.

Once again, I love you all...this is not to start a debate; it's just a calling He has layed heavy upon me which I cannot ignore.

Love, Char

Any teaching on the Rapture that’s based on the Parable of the 10 Virgins is inherently incorrect because the Parable of the 10 Virgins describes a time on Earth just after the 2nd Coming. In other words it’s about people who missed the Rapture, survived the Great Tribulation, and are seeking entrance into the Millennial Kingdom. The 5 who have the Holy Spirit are invited in and the 5 who don’t are excluded.

Josh, blessings.

Whether you receive this truth or not is between you and the Lord.

Love, Char

Josh, I posted Jack Kelley's teaching on this the other day and it turned into a mess. Hope that doesn't happen again.

A BIG AMEN TO THIS TEXAS SUE!!!

I know, there are some one here that just can't grasp no works. I pray that the Holy Spirit opens their eyes to the truth.

"pray to be accounted worthy to escape the testing coming on the whole earth".

Ok Lord, I will pray that prayer because you asked me too.

Lord i am not worthy. I am a sinner . Make me worthy to escape the testing that is comming. Examine me, and know my heart oh God. Probe me and know my thoughts oh God. See if there be any wicked way in me. And lead me in the everlasting way. from psm 139

David prayed that prayer. If its good enough for david its good enought for me. -

Lord, please account me as worthy to escape-
the coming fire.

Peace brothers-

mtnmollie, you are accounted worthy because you believe in Jesus, so am I. That verse is not talking to us.

Whatever brother.

The bible talks to me sir.

I dont follow man- I only follow God.
He leads me with his word.

If I make mistakes thats between me and Him. LOL.
I am his servent- he is my master.
I belong toJ esus.

Now you walk with him how ever he leads.
My Baptist pastor Hale said, "Do what ever he tells you. "

peace brother.

When I get to heaven, he will say to me,
Mollie why did you do what you did?
Because your word lead me this way sir.
Please forgive me if I missed the way.
I know I see through a glass darkly ( 1 Cor 13)
but I tried to follow your word.

"Whatever brother"?? Yeah, real mature

Sorry if I offended you in any way Josh.


These days I am a Lutheran and we love everybody.

Charity, I stand by you 100%, hon. I think you explained it really well.

I think the problem is that we need to define what being 'born again' actually means. It isn't accepting Jesus as your savior....that is accepting Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for your sins. Being born again is a sanctification process in which you are refined through the work of the Holy Spirit until you are birthed as a son of God...no longer a child or a servant, but a son of God with full inheritance rights.

The hope is to become an adopted son as this occurs when a Jewish man would turn 30 and his inheritance would be turned over to him as he was considered mature enough at that age to be able to manage his father's estate. This is the parallel in the natural for what we hope to become in the spiritual.

You are not born again until you are truly mature in Christ in my opinion and this can ONLY occur with the Holy Spirit teaching you the path to be led on and you OBEYING HIM and giving HIM the reigns to your life. It is throwing off the old wine skin and putting on NEW wines skins....a totally new view of your flesh and carnal nature...this is to be born again and to get rid of the old flesh man to be born anew.

There is some salvation that comes from accepting Christ as savior, but this does not lead to inheriting the kingdom of God...it is just the first step on the journey to becoming born again. So many say they are born again and they aren't. They are just believers who are just justified through faith, but have not been sanctified through their obedience to the work of the Holy Spirit to bring them to the point where they are birthed a new creation....a true son of God....Jesus was the first brethren....of many brethren and He was the first overcomer...for to be a son of God is to be a overcomer sanctified from the temptation of sin through continual obedience to the Lord and His laws as He calls you to obey. HE does the work IN YOU.

Don't care if people agree with me or not on this...but I think this is what causes all the conflict....the fact that too many people say they have been born again and yet HAVE NOT BEEN. Their spirits are saved through their belief in Christ, but their souls have not been sanctified by the Holy Spirit in obedience. The final step involves glorification in the BODY, but this must take place after the first two steps....all of which are driven by the actions and will of the Lord and not by any work we can do ourselves...other than submit to His will for the cleansing and purification process that is SO important to be ready to inherit all our Father has to offer His sons.

Being born again is not just accepting Jesus as your Savior, but is actually laying your life down for Jesus to be your LORD over all you can offer and becoming a living sacrifice unto Him.

David was before the cross and Old Testament. We are after the cross, New COVENANT - new testament and sealed and filled with God's own Spirit when we accept Jesus. We are a different group of people than have lived on the earth before. The church (true born again believers) are different because AFTER the blood atonement of Jesus made the way open to God, we are literally indwelt by His Holy Spirit. Old Testament followers of God had to make new animal sacrifices every year to COVER their sins. Jesus died ONCE for all and His blood WASHES AWAY our sin completely. Two different situations.

The lack of understanding of who we are as the body of Christ is probably the main reason many live in defeat and loss. Paul wrote the letters to the churches with the revelation of who we are, the authority we have in the name and blood of Jesus, and what our role is in the world and in the spiritual realm. We don't look forward to victory someday. Victory is already ours from 2,000 years ago.

Sound too good to be true? That's what many think and don't accept it and live far beneath the promises and provisions that God gave us. If Jesus paid in blood for me to be saved, made whole, healed, delivered, provided for and raptured I am going to walk in every bit of it. To do less is to despise the cross and the price that was paid, placing Jesus in a place of low regard.

Also, in the old testament, God's followers were servants. In the New Testmment Jesus says we are no longer servants, He calls us His friends.

Hi Dee....I want to say first ..You make me laugh so hard sometimes...You are funny!!!! and i love it when you are like that.....

question...if this is how it is...then why is it not written plainly for us to understand in the bible?

I hope in no way anyone is judging me and thinkihng I do not lay it all down for Jesus...I do ... I submit the the Holy spirit.... he has done some great things in my life....

anyway I feel when i have questions I am automatically being judge as not being good enought around here....or an immature christian ..... or lacking.....and not part of the "it" crowd...:)

ahh right ...Pastor bob always likes to remind us of who we are in Jesus..there is power in that.....

No offense, but I am for the Bible 100% and believe it because it was divinely inspired by Holy Spirit. Any thing we see or hear in the flesh can be highly subjective and must always line up with the whole word.

To continually strive and work for your salvation puts you squarely in the world of religion. How is that any different than Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and a hundred other things that teach you have to work your way up to acceptance from God? Sounds very much like the teachings of the Catholic church. I know because I worked many years for a Catholic health care system.

Either you believe and trust Jesus for your salvation or you trust in your own ability to become worthy. That puts you in a position to take credit for your salvation and takes the spotlight and the glory off of Jesus. Something is seriously wrong with that approach. "For by GRACE you are saved through FAITH, and that not of yourselves lest you should boast..."

I'm sorry Dee, but this is not biblical teaching.

Romans 10:9-11
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

We are born again the moment that we believe in Christ...sanctification is a different thing. Please don't confuse readers of this thread. Please read the above verse.

1 Cor 13 WE see through a glass darkly,
but then we shall see face to face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete.

Lord, Teach me to pray.
HE lead me to the OT.

Why would you do that?

I just prayed the prayer he gave me-
military family and obedience to orders and all.

I dont ask why. I just ask for direction.
Lord, lead me and guide me with your word.

Peace Rita family.
I love ya all.

Good night John Boy. Good night Amy.
Good night ya'all.

May his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Hmmm, Dee. I dunno. A bit of shaky ground there, I think.

What did the thief on the cross do to become sanctified in his 6 hours hanging there with Jesus?

Are you saying the thief who believed in Jesus (with no works to prove a thing) did not inherit the kingdom? Where is he??

This is what he said to the Lord:

“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

— Luke 23: 42-43

It can’t be more plain. The Holy Spirit had not even descended at Pentecost when Jesus said this to him. It was his faith that gained him entrance to the kingdom, IMO.

Sanctification is a natural process that happens over time for most. It is not what makes us worthy for the rapture. It is a process of becoming more like Him, but we won’t be completely like Him until HE changes US then. We’ll all still be struggling in some area or other.

I've said it before here: If you think you're done struggling, check yourself for spiritual pride. It's an ugly mess, but it is rampant in the body.

I do not think you are proud at all; I think you are the kid in the candy store opening up the candy jars, again. Blueberry, anyone? Or, is that Raspberry? Hmmm.

That said... I DO think we should "pray to be made worthy", as He told us to. To me, this means keeping your sins confessed & most of all a humble heart before Him. I also think this means pray to be made ready for the Bema (awards stand in ancient Greece) Judgment. After all, He doesn't remember things that are under the blood. Why make it any worse than it has to be?? Even if it's not the difference in making the rapture or not. Just confess any possible thing you might be struggling with. What's the biggie?

Who He chooses to take in the first flight out is up to Him. I'm not taking any chances, & neither should anyone else. I do not think He will leave a single sheep that is really his, but that's my opinion. None of us really knows who He will take & who He will leave & for what reasons when it comes down to it.

What if the only reason to do it was that those who did pray to be made worthy get placed nearer the throne for all eternity (or some other reward)? Definitely worth doing. Can you say jackpot?!

You KNOW I love you. I can't wait to sit & hear your thoughts on so many things.

But, this article explains what I think sanctification is.

--

Question: “What is sanctification? What is the definition of Christian sanctification?”

Answer: Jesus had a lot to say about sanctification in the Book of John, chapter 17. In verse 16 the Lord says, “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world,” and this is before His request: “Sanctify them in the truth: Thy word is truth.” Sanctification is a state of separation unto God; all believers enter into this state when they are born of God: “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30). This is a once-for-ever separation, eternally unto God. It is an intricate part of our salvation, our connection with Christ (Hebrews 10:10).

Sanctification also refers to the practical experience of this separation unto God, being the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life, and is to be pursued by the believer earnestly (1 Peter 1:15; Hebrews 12:14). Just as the Lord prayed in John 17, it has in view the setting apart of believers for the purpose for which they are sent into the world: “As Thou didst send Me into the world, even so send I them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth” (v. 18, 19). That He set Himself apart for the purpose for which He was sent is both the basis and the condition of our being set apart for that for which we are sent (John 10:36). His sanctification is the pattern of, and the power for, ours. The sending and the sanctifying are inseparable. On this account they are called saints, hagioi in the Greek; “sanctified ones.” Whereas previously their behavior bore witness to their standing in the world in separation from God, now their behavior should bear witness to their standing before God in separation from the world.

There is one more sense that the word sanctification is referred to in Scripture. Paul prayed in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, “The God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Paul also wrote in Colossians of “the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the Gospel” (Colossians 1:5). He later speaks of Christ Himself as “the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27) and then mentions the fact of that hope when he says, “When Christ, who is our Life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with Him be manifested in glory” (Colossians 3:4). This glorified state will be our ultimate separation from sin, total sanctification in every aspect. “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is” (1 John 3:2).

To summarize, sanctification is the same Greek word as holiness, “hagios,” meaning a separation. First, a once-for-all positional separation unto Christ at our salvation. Second, a practical progressive holiness in a believer’s life while awaiting the return of Christ. Third, we will be changed into His perfect likeness—holy, sanctified, and completely separated from the presence of evil.

Galatians 3:

24) Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ that WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

25) But after faith has come we are no longer under a tutor.

26) FOR YOU ARE ALL SONS OF GOD TRHOUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

27) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29) And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

Chapter 4:


4) But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

5) to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6) And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts crying out "Abba Father".

7) Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Amen Texas Sue! ALL who believe in Jesus will go in the Rapture...there are NO christians that will be left behind, only unbelievers.

It says ...."COUNTED worthy" ....NOT "ARE worthy" . There's a difference. NO ONE "is" worthy.


Salvation is elective ....you COUNTED/IMPUTED righteousness, and not because you are righteous by yourself or any action done by yourself.
But if God SAYS <----important word ...you are worthy ...then you are. He says ...'you are indeed worthy' based on the actions of His Son [ calvary ]

Keep in mind that Rapture is also elective , and all that implies.

The Bible says "Pray that you are "counted worthy". That was written to/for elect believers, not unbelievers, who don't care anyway.

So pray for your full measure of oil ,which He says you should do, which you can not buy in the marketplace , yet you can ask/pray for it , and receive it.

Email: texlittlefield@gmail.com

Website: watcherrefugeecamp.freeforums.org/index.php

AMEN!!! T/Sue!!!


Tammy (SNC)