FREEDOM IN CHRIST....

Look at the four Gospels and the account we have of the preaching of the Apostles in the Book of Acts! If ever there was anyone who understood and preached the love of God it was Jesus Christ.

In the old testament,under the old covenant God sent his prophets to warn the people.Sometimes this came as a dream or in a vision.Those who reject Christ are still subjected to live under the law.There is no one righteous enough,no one good enough and certainly no one can make it into the kingdom of God living under the law.
For God so loved US that he sent his son Jesus and through Jesus we have eternal life.Once a person is born again they become spiritually alive and God's very Spirit dwells in their hearts.The Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance unto the day we leave here.A down payment if you will.
Who can save himself?Who can cleanse themselves of sin?There are some folks who have eternal life through Jesus Christ but yet they fail to understand the whole concept of the New Covenant
We who have eternal life do not live as the ones whose only hope to gain eternal life is by trying to save themselves by works.Eternal life can not be earned.Do we heed the warnings of the prophets of old.Are we the righteous whom the prophets condemned?Or do we live in knowing that we who are saved through Jesus Christ will never be condemned because Jesus is our intercessor to the Father.
The point of this post is if one is born again then do you realise that you are not living under the law.God is not a wrathful God waiting to send you to hell.He sent his son to die for each and everyone of us.To use scare tactics to bring people to the Lord must be very sad for our loving Father.For those of us who has seen the very love of God come down and surround us with his tender love in the most sorrowful and low points of our life know the love of the Father and have seen and felt the Love of the Father can make one wonder if those who fear God really know God.Because to know him is to love him and that love is not a seed grown from fear.The KJV is in the old English and the word fear simply means RESPECT.The word FEAR today means just that Fear and who loves what they Fear?

Very well said Heaven. It is so freeing to know that there is no condemnation of all who are IN Christ Jesus.

Some would say that being saved from the penalty of sin is not a license to sin, and they would be right.

Some would say that God's Holy Word tells us to walk in holiness, following Christs' example of dying to our own self interest and having compassion on the least, lonely and lost people that are all around us. And they would be right.

Some would say that the principles of the Ten Commandments and all the Law of Moses are still good for us to obey in order to be safe from the earthly physical consequences of not doing so. And they would be right.

Some would also say that we need to examine ourselves and see if we are worthy of our calling to be spiritual kings and priest in this earthly kingdom of the age of grace. And they would be right.

Some would also say that we need to be found worthy through our behavior in order to be accepted into the eternal Kingdom of God when the last trumpet sounds and the rapture of the Bride of Christ occurs. And they are wrong.

We were not worthy before Christ died and arose again to new life, and we were not worthy after Christ died and arose. We were not worthy when He called us to salvation by choosing us and drawing us to Himself, and, we will not be made worthy by anything we do AFTER God justified us as "not guilty" in His Court of Law.

ONLY Jesus Christ is WORTHY and when our names were written in the BOOK of LIFE, we were SEALED IN CHRIST JESUS. God the Father only views us through the prism of His Son,s shed blood at Calvary. That payment for our purchase was complete and FINAL.

Can I hear a PRAISE GOD FOR HIS GOODNESS?

The message of freedom and hope is the only message that brings abundant life. And that is the TRUTH.

Love you all

Tom

Email: tparbar@gmail.com

I love your post Heaven, and agree with you very much. I also love your post Tom, and agree, also.

However, is it not true that there are many warnings given in the New Testament to believers of the New Covenant? I am not just referring to the gospels. I have seen many warnings to believers in the Epistles, in Hebrews, and from Jesus' very own mouth in Revelation to the churches. How can one say that there are not? I would truly like to know, as I have stated before, because I have wondered this for a long time. I can't imagine that Jesus gave warnings to the believers for nothing... that makes no sense to me. So, then, if we are completely justified (which I believe we are, because Romans says so) by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, then why are there warnings to repent to the churches? Not only warnings to repent, but also stipulations that if they don't repent, He will discipline them?

I truly am a seeker of truth and I don't seek argument in any way. I love His Word above all things and I desire only pure truth and wisdom. That is my sole purpose in asking these questions...And I love all the wisdom of many brothers and sisters in the Lord and hope for insight~

I might add that I don't really expect anyone to answer these questions, they are age-old, I suppose and thus divisive. Mods, please, of course, remove if you feel led. Maybe I should go look at some other sites for answers so as not to seem provocative here (which I am not intending!!)

.... maybe just erase this (?) I don't want to start anything. I would just honestly like to know how one can be so very, very confident despite all the warnings to believers.

Great post Tom, I totally agree..(as usual)

YBIC
Randy

Email: randyjan@windstream.net

Melanie, I honestly believe that if you are one of the seekers looking for the meaning of the warnings, then the warnings are not applying to you.

It is those who are not seeking the truth and not wanting to follow God's ways that the warnings are for.

Those of us on RITA have tender hearts toward the Lord. We are seeking His ways, and reverant of His Holiness.

Yes, the warnings are true, but I really believe they are for disobedient or lazy Christians and do not apply to those of us who spend our time studying to show ourselves approved.

All the banter lately about different doctrinal issues is so sad because I truly believe we are all coming from the same place, but are having trouble expressing it by typing.

If we were all in a room together, we would have hashed all this out in 10 minutes! lol!

Jesus LOVES us, Melanie. You are such a tender, sweet and beautiful soul. He won't let you go down the wrong path, nor will He let the rest of us. He will tenderly guide us back to where we need to be. He will not lose ANY of His own.

Unfortunately I think the Christians that the warnings are truly for will probably never spend time on a site like this to even see them, but hopefully some of them will.

I sure hope this thread doesn't turn into another heated "discussion". I wondered when I saw it first posted.

Love you ALL! Blessings!

Here are a few links that address this question:
http://www.ancientpath.net/Bible/Doctrine/Eschatology2/eschatology2_mason_4.htm

http://members.shaw.ca/homechristian/docs/articles/LawOrGrace.htm

Here's an analogy that may help (I love analogies!)

There's a beautiful beach with many people on it. They all agree that they love the beach! The waves also look VERY inviting - perfect temperature, size, etc. for lots of fun.

There are also signs on the beach that warn that there are many sharks in the water and that the water is very dangerous.

Some people on the beach see the signs and decide to stay on the beach and enjoy their time there. The warnings are NOT for them. They aren't in the water. That doesn't make the warnings any less true.

Other people decide to take a chance. They see the warnings - or maybe some of them don't even take time to see the warnings. One thing is for sure, they all jump in the water because they are willing to chance it. The water was too inviting and they didn't want to resist it. The warnings are for them.

The people on the beach are frightened for those in the water. They can see dorsel fins swimming around the swimmers. The swimmers can no longer read the signs because they are too far out. They also can't hear the shouts from the beach goers as the sound of the waves is too loud.

The people on the beach can see the warning signs right in front of their faces and they get more and more scared. Now it would be silly for them to be scared for themselves as they are not in the water. They need to remember who the fear is for - those IN the water.

All those on the beach can do is pray for those in the water, and if one comes close enough, again try to warn them, but they must not get lost into themselves constantly checking to see if they are being eaten by the sharks. They're still NOT in the water, and they are heeding the warnings.

Both people love the beach. Only one heeds the warnings.

God's warnings are true for those swimming with the sharks. May we here at RITA stay on the beach in prayer and fellowship with each other, and not throw each other into the water.

Blessings.

The question is, are the ones in the water the saved or the unsaved?
http://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/chafer/unsaved.html

Email: tparbar@gmail.com

I would agree with Tom that if they were saved on the beach then they are saved in the water. I would say that Tom and I are chips off the same block (and I liked what Heaven had to say) but I realize we are in the minority here. The links I posted explain where I'm coming from, and it's never a position of coercion; only of love.

(Yes, we are friends here.)

Love in Christ, Bob (I'm glad you liked the GMC )

Thank you so much for your wisdom, Diane, Kman (Bob) and Tom! I will prayerfully consider your posts and read those links. God is so good!

And loved your analogy, Diane~ good job on that one!

I loved reading all the responding post.Thank you all for your view on this subject.
Now any good parent would discipline their child when they disobey and so will the Father.No one who receives eternal life should consider this a license to sin because if they are saved the Holy spirit will convict them of their sin.
Eternal life is a free gift to the one who comes to Jesus and through Jesus is the only way.
However i put forth a question and that question would be...
Once we receive eternal life through Jesus are we the "ONE" responible for keeping that eternal life.If the answer is no then we have the understanding that we trust in the Lord Jesus that what he done on the cross was enough to secure our eternal salvation.If you answer "Yes" we are responible for keeping our salvation then that would be to believe that man is responible for his own salvation through works.
To examine our salvation is a grand thing.If we walk with the Lord daily then we are quick to respond with a "Yes" I am saved!
What about the folks who have received salvation but are now back out into the world?Do they examine their self and say"I am no longer saved because I sin"
or do they repent and come back to the Lord?Of course this is an never ending debate.
Of course to believe that salvation can be lost is to believe that spirits can die.A born again person is born of the Spirit by the Spirit and the lost according to the word of God are spiritually dead.So the saved have been born again spiritually.
However if one needs to examine sin in their life then chances are if they are born again they will not have to examine themselves to find this sin.The Holy Spirit will convict the heart of the born again so that if you sin you will know the sin right off without having to examine yourself hunting out the human nature which is sin.
No one will ever be good enough in God's eyes and no one is worthy in God's eyes and no one will enter the Kingdom of God unless the blood of Jesus has redeemed the sinner.Redeemed means purchased and once you belong to the Father your his.
That is where the difference in trying to be good enough and trusting what Jesus did on the cross for you is good enough.
We do not live under the law and try as we might we couldn't even get living under the law right.That is why God sent his Son and why do you think?Because like as any parent who loves their child God does not want to lose a single child(soul) to the lake of fire which is the same as death because they would be forever seperated from the love of the Father.
So to go back to saying that God is not in the business of making eternal life so difficult that one must live in fear of him,afraid that he is just waiting for them to mess up so he can throw them in hell.To live in fear of our heavenly Father is heartbreaking.To think that after he sent his Son to die in our place and we still can not trust that God is Love.

Heaven, I think you really hit the nail on the head. If we are saved, then even if we walk away, the Holy Spirit will convict us and bring us back, some way, somehow. I guess the question is can a person truly lose salvation once they are saved. I don't know if there is a point where they become SO disobedient and turn away that God releases them to that choice or not. There does seem to be some biblical evidence for that.

You are right, the debate goes around and around. I think the problem is truly that we see through a glass darkly and probably are never going to completely understand this until we are with Him.

Email: DiChapman1@aol.com

Website: www.mannapages.com/moderndaymanna

Joyful Susan, AGAIN we have many similarities with our past, which I won't go into now, but suffice it to say, I hear ya sista! I sure KNEW I was backslidden, and God kept bringing me closer and closer to who He wants me to be. I'm still on the journey, but there's light at the end of the tunnel! LOL! I am chosen by Him. He will never let me go!

Email: DiChapman1@aol.com

Website: www.mannapages.com/moderndaymanna

God is a loving God but love is discipline!! And without discipline then their is no love!!

Just like the verse that says "Spare the rod spoil the child"

Well I beleive because parents are not allowed to discipline their children anymore that is why there are so many troubled teens in the world now because the government has taken parents rights away to discipline the child.

Now you can go to jail if you spank a child out of love!!!

That is why this world is going downhill. Because people don't want to follow Gods commandments anymore and just do what they please.

Well if we love God then we will keep his commandments out of our love for God!!!

Because when you love your child you discipline them when they do wrong to teach them it is wrong. Just like God will discipline his children out of his love for them so they will do what is right as well.

So if God disciplines his children it is because he loves them not because he hates them. And I truly beleive that is what God is doing when he brings judgement down on his children is to show them what they are doing is wrong and they need to change their ways or there will be consequences for them and
to learn that if you love me and I love you does not mean I am just going to allow you to keep sinning when you know it is wrong!!!

I am going to discipline you to show you it is wrong so you change your ways and start to do what is right!!

And if God is telling his people to repent and cleanse themself and humble themself and baptise themself to be ready for his pure spotless bride.

Then I am just going to obey and not argue with God who knows what is best!!!

Love ya

AngelHeart

Website: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667676418&ref=profile

Well said, AngelHeart!

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joyful susan

AngelHeart

God is a loving God but love is discipline!! And without discipline then their is no love!!

Just like the verse that says "Spare the rod spoil the child"

Well I beleive because parents are not allowed to discipline their children anymore that is why there are so many troubled teens in the world now because the government has taken parents rights away to discipline the child.

Now you can go to jail if you spank a child out of love!!!

That is why this world is going downhill. Because people don't want to follow Gods commandments anymore and just do what they please.

Well if we love God then we will keep his commandments out of our love for God!!!

Because when you love your child you discipline them when they do wrong to teach them it is wrong. Just like God will discipline his children out of his love for them so they will do what is right as well.

So if God disciplines his children it is because he loves them not because he hates them. And I truly beleive that is what God is doing when he brings judgement down on his children is to show them what they are doing is wrong and they need to change their ways or there will be consequences for them and
to learn that if you love me and I love you does not mean I am just going to allow you to keep sinning when you know it is wrong!!!

I am going to discipline you to show you it is wrong so you change your ways and start to do what is right!!

And if God is telling his people to repent and cleanse themself and humble themself and baptise themself to be ready for his pure spotless bride.

Then I am just going to obey and not argue with God who knows what is best!!!

Love ya

AngelHeart

actually there is more to decipline than spanking.... and if I had to I would still spank.... no one ever stopped me.... but honestly spanking was only a form of decipline in my home ...I used other methods as well and resorted to spanking if it got to that point...

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Yes AngelHeart, I would definitely give up this life to have eternal life with Jesus!

It's just not worth the risk to take the chance on sin.

There was a time in my life (actually most of my life) when I didn't necessarily feel that way though, and still had sins I didn't want to give up. If I had died during that time I still do believe I would have gone to heaven because I am saved and sealed, but I am so glad God is bringing me to where He wants me to be - getting closer to finishing the course He had set for me. Thats all that matters to me now!

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Yes God will discipline...

Revelation 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent

However one needs to have the understanding that God disciplines for repentance of sin.What about those who repent?Are they disciplined anyways?
Some live in fear of God thinking that the bad things that come their way is a judgement from God.Satan would have it no other way.This is one of the traps that Christians sometimes fall in.Believing that God is the reason for circumstances that may happen in their life.Then this thinking gives way to fear,fear of God.Fear that he is out to get you for any wrong that you might of even thought of doing.This causes a fear of the Father.When the enemy gets this foothold over on a christian the christian loses all their joy and peace and true fellowship with the Lord.
So be careful thinking that all bad things are judgements because if Satan can steal your joy and your peace and your personal relationship with the Lord and have you believe God is responible then he has caused you to walk in a spirit of fear.Fear is from the enemy and Satan will use it against a child of God because fear is not a spirit from God but from Satan.

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Actually Heaven, I don't think anything bad that has ever happened to me is God's judgement. God has always lovingly brought me to where He wanted me to be. ALL bad things that have happened to me have been the result or consequence of my bad choices or not following God's ways. I know that one for a fact. I never fear that God is judging me. He may lovingly discipline me, but not judge me. We are still in the period of Grace. Judgement will be coming soon, but God in His Grace and Mercy is still calling His children to Himself.

AngelHeart, you may be right about my not going in the rapture when I was backslidden. I don't know. My glass is just to dark to see through.

One thing I do know. No matter where I would end up after death, or how I would get there, Jesus deserves all my worship - every knee shall bow! That's all that really matters. He made me for His purposes and His glory, and quite frankly, He has the right to do whatever He wants with me. I am the clay, He is the potter.

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Diane C

Actually Heaven, I don't think anything bad that has ever happened to me is God's judgement. God has always lovingly brought me to where He wanted me to be. ALL bad things that have happened to me have been the result or consequence of my bad choices or not following God's ways. I know that one for a fact. I never fear that God is judging me. He may lovingly discipline me, but not judge me. We are still in the period of Grace. Judgement will be coming soon, but God in His Grace and Mercy is still calling His children to Himself.

AngelHeart, you may be right about my not going in the rapture when I was backslidden. I don't know. My glass is just to dark to see through.

One thing I do know. No matter where I would end up after death, or how I would get there, Jesus deserves all my worship - every knee shall bow! That's all that really matters. He made me for His purposes and His glory, and quite frankly, He has the right to do whatever He wants with me. I am the clay, He is the potter.

Website: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667676418&ref=profile

The ones who will not go in the Rapture will be the ones who are not ready to go and so they are left.Who will not be ready?Those who do not have oil in their lamps.In other words"Those who do not have the light of eternal life and that would be Jesus.So there should be no fear or worry if one is worthy enough or good enough to go in the Rapture.Remember that if one don't have salvation through Christ,this is the one who will not go!If one believes works earn salvation then are we responible for keeping our own eternal life?Praise the Father for Jesus because if we were responible for getting ourselves into God's kingdom then God's Heaven would be empty.

When we as Christians start judging one another,casting doubt on another to cause others to question their salvation, then we become made up with our own self righteousness,believing to rise up to the throne of God and set in judgement against our own brothers and sisters in Christ.This ought not be the ways of God's children.We should pray for one another instead of condemning and judging one another.Some will use scripture to judge another however there is also scripture that condemn others for self righteousness...
Judging Others
Luke 6:37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
39 He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

We do not live under the Law and we have no right to step into God's shoes,judging others,casting fear on others and becoming puffed up with self righteousness.If one becomes prideful in themselves,thinking they can start telling others that they are false Christians or believe they can discern God's word to place fear into God's child,"Watch Out because pride comes before a fall.
Brothers and sisters stop judging one another!we all make up the body of Christ and if a house is divided,that house will fall...
And great will that fall be!!! and so it will.

Excellent post, Heaven. Charles Stanley did a great job of addressing this topic of forgiveness and judgement this morning as he discussed the prodigal son. It is well worth watching.

Matthew 5:17-48 (New King James Version)

Jesus Fulfills the Law

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

I think that there are a multitude of people out there that profess to be Christians because one day they walked the aisle years ago or lifted their hand to the pastor's call. They said "I believe in Jesus" -- well, of course, even the devil believes.

I think these warnings in God's Word are to those who never followed Him down the road to discipleship and have no intention of doing so. They are the ones who have Him in name only - no relationship and want no relationship. Do you think that those will be the ones he will spew out of his mouth?

I think all of us that were raised in a Christian environment know there is a difference between sitting in Church and being SAVED. I sat in Church all my life but wasn't born again until I was thirty -- quite a bit of difference in the two. Many now KNOW what they should be doing but will not turn their lives over to Jesus because of their life in the world. They think they have time. We are living in precarious times - I pray that I am counted worthy to escape those things coming upon the earth.

Email: leesascott@embarqmail.com

Thanks everyone for your responding post.God is good and we need to stay humble in heart and continue to lift one another up and if a brother or sister stumbles then if reprove is necessary then this must be done with the love of the Father.Also guard yourselves or the same trap that has snared another can snare you as well.
Jesus did not do away with the law but through Jesus we are not under the law but under God's grace with salvation through his Son.

LOL, Yikes, Kolleen! Good visuals!

I haven't been to a beach but only a few times in my life, but after I saw the movie Jaws, the times I did go to the beach I never got in the water again!!

Never will either. I want to SEE what is swimming around my body, thank you very much!

If the Word says that Jesus went to the cross for our sins..what part of the Word don't we believe?

We don't live under the law, just grace, unmerrited favor...

but we should keep the law, 9 of the ten are easy, the Sabbath is the stickler,

and there are actually twelve, Jesus gave us two more,

or did he reduce it to two?


But, it will all change soon, He will be here in a few more days...